Hello Again , In my last post i mentioned that i was to attend my first meeting yesterday , unfortunately i couldn't get there , and boy do i wish i'd managed after the day i've had .My A who had managed not to drink for a week , mainly because i stopped enabling him, asked for 1 pound to get a coca cola , silly me for believeing him . This was whilst he was waiting at my work place to go for an interview for a job , so thinking he wouldn't go and buy beer gave it to him . 2 hours later he appeared back at the office , looked ok but i could smell the alcohol and mentioned it .......know i shouldn't have but was so angry and upset , with this he took off and i've just found him now in his regular haunt where he can get beer on a tab .I'm so confused , should i start trusting him when he asks for money for a soft drink or do i spend everyday mistrusting him , no basis for a relationship . i feel betrayed by him and just feel down right used . I've been in this situation so many times before you'd think i'd be used to it but every time it happens i feel even more hurt and angry . i feel like giving up on him , if i'm trying so hard , why cant he ?. I know he'll come home later completely paraletic , and already i'm starting to get that familiar feeling in the pit of my stomach ....... what do i do ....... scream , shout or do i ignore him ( i wish i could but it's so hard to do) .......i feel i'm just wasting my time on a no hoper .........
UncleLou said
Sep 27, 2005
His disease is so powerful, there is now way you will come out ahead if he has a choice between you and the disease. He is sick and his thinking is not rational. Things may be get easier for you if you accept this and adjust your expectations accordingly.
Lou
WakingUp said
Sep 27, 2005
I agree with Lou. At this point you're not trusting a person when you give him money or believe his stories -- you're trusting a disease. He is not his disease. Maybe that would be a thought to start with? Maybe go to Al Anon for awhile before making any big decisions about the relationship?
Hugs.
bcanuck said
Sep 27, 2005
Hello and welcome
Firstly, you're not a fool. That's what you have to realize first and foremost. You are in a relationship with someone who has a disease, who will put alcohol above all else. It will take time, and a lot of effort and reading on your part (and as many meetings as you can attend) for you to develop some understanding of his disease and how you can take care of yourself despite his disease. This program works, if you work it. It saved my life.
Cheers!
Bonnie
Diva said
Sep 27, 2005
Waking Up, I am confused here. Let's assume the person and the disease are two separate entities, which from various posts I have read in the past, seems to be the consensus of thinking. Many posters here actually make this differentiation. The person I can trust; the disease I cannot. Hmmmmm...Cytagirl cannot give the disease the money for a coke...Should she give it to the person??? Faulty logic like this, if I understand correctly, is where Al Anon and I part company. You say, " He is not his disease." I believe he certainly is; that is unless he and his disease have different Social Security numbers!! I mean no disrespect to you, Waking Up. My question is sincere. Diva
Christy said
Sep 27, 2005
Diva..
I had trouble with that too at first. But I do now see the disease as seperate. It is an actual physical need in an alcoholic, along with psychiatric.
If you can see it as a disease, like the comparison to cancer that I'm sure you've heard before....
Blame is not put on the person for what the cancer is doing to his/her body or how chemo makes their hair fall out..
Alcoholics really don't have a choice, they may get sober but the disease is there for the rest of their lives, waiting to take hold again and drag them in to hell. Just one slip, one time, ruins years of being sober and they are right back at it.
The only difference I can see is the craving of the disease.
Just my take..
Christy
Diva said
Sep 27, 2005
I agree with you in Christy. We do not hate someone who has the disease of cancer just because he has it. We may hate that it may kill him, so we hate the disease. So far, so good. Following along those lines, we hate the alcoholism because of what it does to a person and because it may kill him. Got it! But so often I hear things like, "I will not talk to the disease." Or, "It was the disease that made him drive drunk and kill someone." Almost using the unfortunate fact of alcoholism as an excuse. God forbid, when and if a person kills someone during a drunk driving session, or a fit of rage, or whatever may happen, the alcoholism is not going to be on trial. The Person is! Try as may to blame the terrible incident on a disease, it doesn't float. We are all responsible for our actions, whether we drink or not. The alcoholic is no exception. So, to my way of thinking, the alcoholism and the person afflicted cannot be separated. Maybe, just maybe my opinion stems from the fact, buried deep within my mind, that alcoholism is not a disease. I don't know. Which addictions are diseases and which are not?
But thanks for taking the time to respond, Christy. I always enjoy and appreciate your posts. Maybe someday I will get all of my questions and their answers sorted out.
With great caring, Diva
UncleLou said
Sep 27, 2005
Diva wrote:
...Cytagirl cannot give the disease the money for a coke...Should she give it to the person???
If the A is active, you may as well give the money to the disease. If the A is recovered you are dealing with the person. This is why there is a distinction between the two. The person and the disease ARE two separate entities. It is still the person, sober or not, who is responsible for his actions. I know for myself that while sober I have a lot less to worry about now that my actions are more under my control and not the control of my disease.
Lou
Karilynn said
Sep 27, 2005
Diva,
How's this?
His disease is the physical condition that manifests itself in the psychological/behavioral, in order to satisfy the physical needs.
Another words: his body needs the alcohol. In order to get that, the pychological side of him kicks in, and lies, steals, or whatever to get the money to satisfy the craving.
So no, you shouldn't give the alcoholic money especially if they're active. When they're in recovery it can be a bit more difficult. No you shouldn't justify when someone goes out and drinks and drive, and heaven forbid hurt someone or themselves. The disease explains the behavior, but it doesn't justify it nor should it.
Another example (off the topic some may think, but hang in there with me): in some serial killers (spent 5 years in college lecturing on them) when you look at their brains there is a chemical inbalance, a physical abonormality. At some point they have this need/craving to kill. Again and again. When they don't the tension builds (called a catathymic crisis) until they do. Another words they are feeding their addiction. They crave it. Sick though it is. Once their addiction is met, they cease for a while. Then it picks up again. They go on this rollercoaster for years, even decades. There is absolutely no justification for their behavior. But in many cases there is an explanation.
The point is: their brains are wired differently than us "normal" humans. They exhibit this behavior because their physical makeup/sickness demands that it does. It manifests itself in the behavioral. While I would never label serial killers as "disease" they are certainly disturbed in more ways than one.
So when I say that my active A, I hear his alcohol talking not him. It's because I split the 2 different behaviors. I know what he's like sober. The behaviors are completely different.
Please before anyone thinks that I am equating serial killers with alcoholics. I am not. It's just another example of how biological needs are met with the physical needs. I hope I have not offended any one. This was certainly not the intention.
Love and prayers to all of you.
Live strong,
Karilynn
UncleLou said
Sep 27, 2005
Karilynn,
I can completly relate to your example of how serial killers are 'forced' into abnormal behavior by bio-chemical differences in brain chemistry. I am not at all offended. In fact, learning this stuff about the alcoholic brain at rehab was one of the key things I really needed to 'get' to accept my disease and stop fighting it. If this view was more widely known and accepted, there might be a lot less misunderstanding about the disease and bit more healing between family and friends damaged by it.
leo said
Sep 28, 2005
Hi I am new to this as well so I definitely don't think you are a fool. My view is that by you giving him money you feel you have some control over the situation. Why don't you have your money and he has his. That way he controls the way he uses the money not you. It will not stop him drinking but then you giving him money didn't either. I have just found out about the three C's .
You did not Cause his drinking
You can not Control his drinking
You can not Cure his drinking
Pretty good advice I hope me as a control freak can remember it myself. Good luck and thinking of you.
KathyS said
Sep 29, 2005
cytagirl wrote: .I'm so confused , should i start trusting him when he asks for money for a soft drink or do i spend everyday mistrusting him , no basis for a relationship . i feel betrayed by him and just feel down right used .
Silly question but I'll ask anyway........why does a grown man not have his own money to buy a soft drink? The definition of enabling is doing ANYTHING for someone that they SHOULD be able to do for themselves. A grown man should be able to buy himself a soda if he'd like one.
You shouldn't feel betrayed or used by him. Once you made the decision to hand over the money to him, it was out of your hands how he chose to spend it. He is sick with the disease of alcoholism. His power of choice has been taken from him by this disease. Lying is a symptom of this disease. Why allow yourself be surprised, or feel betrayed or used? He did what alcoholics not in recovery do. Nothing surprising about that.
My suggestion? Get yourself to a f2f meeting, get a sponsor and work the 12 steps. Everything will become so clear to you and you will no longer be confused.
His disease is so powerful, there is now way you will come out ahead if he has a choice between you and the disease. He is sick and his thinking is not rational. Things may be get easier for you if you accept this and adjust your expectations accordingly.
Lou
I agree with Lou. At this point you're not trusting a person when you give him money or believe his stories -- you're trusting a disease. He is not his disease. Maybe that would be a thought to start with? Maybe go to Al Anon for awhile before making any big decisions about the relationship?
Hugs.
Hello and welcome
Firstly, you're not a fool. That's what you have to realize first and foremost. You are in a relationship with someone who has a disease, who will put alcohol above all else. It will take time, and a lot of effort and reading on your part (and as many meetings as you can attend) for you to develop some understanding of his disease and how you can take care of yourself despite his disease. This program works, if you work it. It saved my life.
Cheers!
Bonnie
Silly question but I'll ask anyway........why does a grown man not have his own money to buy a soft drink? The definition of enabling is doing ANYTHING for someone that they SHOULD be able to do for themselves. A grown man should be able to buy himself a soda if he'd like one.
You shouldn't feel betrayed or used by him. Once you made the decision to hand over the money to him, it was out of your hands how he chose to spend it. He is sick with the disease of alcoholism. His power of choice has been taken from him by this disease. Lying is a symptom of this disease. Why allow yourself be surprised, or feel betrayed or used? He did what alcoholics not in recovery do. Nothing surprising about that.
My suggestion? Get yourself to a f2f meeting, get a sponsor and work the 12 steps. Everything will become so clear to you and you will no longer be confused.