Need to vent some other stuff again. See my last post for some background. Went out to dinner/movie/coffee with my AA sponsor and some others last night. My son calls me several times during the movie so I finally pick up my phone. Says he’s at a friend’s house and wants to know if I can come pick him up with some friends to go back to our house. I said no, I’m out for the night, can’t get him. I say where is your mom? It’s her weekend with you, she should come get you. He says she’s out with friends and can’t come get them now, when will I be home? I said I’m not coming home right now, not sure when I will be home, sorry. At this point I’m a little disappointed my ex can’t be there for him on her ‘weekend.’
After coffee with my friends, I get home at about 10:45. Garage door to my space opens to the sight of a white car belonging to my ex’s boyfriend. I was stunned. My son comes out to the garage apologizing that it’s HIS fault that Tom is there because he told his mother I wouldn’t be home that night. Pointing out the car, I asked my son how he felt about this. He said, ‘I don’t like it dad, but it doesn’t matter, there’s nothing I can do about it.‘ I walked through the house to go upstairs and see my ex on the love seat and Tom on the couch with his 8 year old watching TV. I said a Hello to the room as a walked past, my ex says nothing and Tom says ‘Hi Lou.’ My son and daughter are in the house with 4 or 5 of their friends over. The whole situation seems so bazaar and wrong to me I go up to my room and call my sister and my sponsor to process it all. I know that this is the type of situation that might cause me to pick up a drink if I don’t pick up the phone.
Am I nuts or should I not expect that I should be able to come home and not find my ex’s boyfriend’s car in my garage and see him sitting on my couch watching my TV? What kind of effect does this have on our kids 2 weeks after the divorce? My head is still spinning after all the tears she shed last week about how she’s not sure she made the right decision and she still loves me and she’s confused. Is she purposely pushing my buttons to drive me to relapse? I made a decision to stay away from any friendships with any women with whom there would be any possibility of a relationship these past 2 years. If I were to start dating now, it’s inconceivable I would bring the new person to my home if my kids were around. Is that stupid of me to think that way?
Anyway, Tom leaves and my sister calls to talk to my ex about how her actions can have a long lasting negative effect on our kids. I hear my ex yelling back at her. It’s Lou’s fault this whole thing happened because he told my son he would not be home tonight. Its Lou’s fault for calling other people when he got home. Tom parked in the garage out of respect for Lou because the neighbors talk and she didn’t want Lou to feel uncomfortable in front of them. Lou should be out of the house when it’s her weekend with the kids, etc.
I’m sick over this whole thing but I guess I’m getting a real reality check about what type of person my ex really is. I’m fighting really hard, talking to my sponsor and friends, going to meetings, and praying. The salt on the open wounds is excruciating. I’m deathly afraid I may get a case of the f-its, and I know were that will lead me.
Maria123 said
Sep 11, 2005
(((((((((Lou))))))))))))),
I really enjoy your posts! Keep posting!
That is one tough situation you are in. You are not crazy. You can establish boundaries. If you and your ex are sharing a house due to finances, there is no reason why you or she should have to deal with an "intruder" in your own home. I would set up some boundaries and quick -- one being that neither or you will have BF or GF in the "children's home." How long is this arrangement going to be? What did the divorce decree?
Regarding her trying to make you relapse, I have found that often the A's in our life don't even consider us. In other words, it's not about you. A's are so into themselves and what their needs are that they don't STOP and think about the consequences and ramifications.
Good for you for calling your sponsor and anyone that will help you. Keep coming and join us in some of the online meetings too. Lottsa experience, strength and hope there.
Maria123
Christy said
Sep 11, 2005
(((Lou)))
I agree with Maria, some boundaries have to be in place. Not just for your protection, but for your kids.
I noticed you said your son felt "it was his fault" the boyfriend was there. He's taking the blame for an adult's choice. That should never happen, but unfortunately often does. Thus the cycle continues.
We know that alcoholic thinking is very selfish. That is more then evident in your X's behavior..I might even add bizarre.
With boundaries, must come consequences that you are willing to follow and stand firm on. Maybe your sponsor can help you with these.
Good Luck Lou..
Christy
ditto said
Sep 11, 2005
Hi Lou,
I am very new to all of this, being married to an alcoholic for 10 months and having already seen a divorce attorney. Really, no one can know your situation or what you both experienced, and we are hearing one side of the situation and the truth usually lies somewhere between.
Having said that, you have already expressed that your ex-wife is angry because of things that went on during your married years. It would be unrealistic to expect that the divorce has wiped the slate clean and that she is no longer angry or resentful at the change in her circumstances. It sounds very much like she is using this opportunity to punish you. She is wrong to do this. But, she is human.
It also sounds like you have not entirely let go of the relationship with her. Sometimes, even though we love someone, we have to let them go. Maybe she will come back in time. Maybe she wont. Right now you must look toward your own emotional health and well-being. You must be kind to yourself. Part of being kind to yourself is allowing yourself to grieve the end of your marriage and relationship. It is ok to feel sad. it is ok to feel frustrated. It is ok to have regrets. It is ok to feel anger. It is ok to feel.
You should not have stopped drinking for your ex-wife. You should have stopped drinking for you. You should have stopped because you understand the danger it places you in, both physically and mentally. You should be very proud of yourself that you gave it up. Addictions are never easy to break. So, the point is, that if you drink because you are angry at her, you are not hurting her, you are hurting you. And you are hurting future relationships with your children. And you are hurting future friendships. And you are doing something that would not solve any problems but would simply make more. You probably already know this.
Maybe you can investigate an alternative living arrangement. Can you stay with your sister until the house sells? Can you rent an apartment? If you cannot afford it alone, is it possible to live with a roommate?
I've always been told that tide turns at lowest ebb. Have faith, this too shall pass. Your writing indicates that you are both an intelligent and highly intuitive person, I have every belief that you will find the right path for you.
Sending best wishes.
lin0606 said
Sep 11, 2005
AA tells you to stay out of slippery places. Is this house a slippery place for you? What does your sponsor say?
Try to keep the focus on you.
UncleLou said
Sep 11, 2005
Maria123 wrote: ...Regarding her trying to make you relapse, I have found that often the A's in our life don't even consider us. ...
Christy wrote: ... We know that alcoholic thinking is very selfish. That is more then evident in your X's behavior..
Just to be clear; my ex is not an alcoholic, I am. Although she is a codependent, people tell me also exhibits alcoholic thinking and behavior. It's helpful for me to post here because I feel that 'al-anon' responses are much more in tune to relationship issues than AA. I'm trying very hard to work on my sobriety while recognizing my selfish behavior so I can work on that also. I hope I might also be able to help someone else here by presenting a different point of view. Thanks to all for your help.
canadianguy said
Sep 11, 2005
The only way you can get "driven to relapse" is in a car.... Al-Anon AND AA both are consistent in their teachings, that others - your spouse, friends, boss, etc, CANNOT cause you to drink again. That decision is yours and yours alone.
I find your post very awkward... I know you are hurting, but this is a safe place for Al-Anons to share their feelings and concerns... If people hear read into your post, that we "better treat you the way you want to be treated, or we will cause you to drink again", we will go backwards, not forward.
We have heard the "victim cry" for so long - it gets very old
Tom
david62 said
Sep 11, 2005
Lou,
You are definately not nuts to expect that your ex wouldn't bring her bf into the house with your children. She is nuts. And so is Tom, and inconsiderate and living for a thrill? You live there, and the possibility that you would come home is always there, whether you are expected or not.
Is she trying to get you to relapse? I doubt that, I agree also that she isnt even considering you or the children in this situation, just being selfish. I am having a hard time staying calm here Lou, cuz this hits so close to home for me and this crap makes me so angry and thats not a good place for me or you to be.
You and the ex definately need to establish some boundaries for the duration of time you will be living together, and not having "friends" over to the house seems like an incredibly easy one for both of you to see the wisdom of. But for some there seems to be no wisdom forthcoming at times.
Please remember the kids first, even if she doesnt. Please reassure your son that his mom's/bf's actions are most certainly not his fault. And that you love him, no matter what.
Keep the faith Lou, this too shall pass.
Thank you so much for your postings, they really let me know that the line between "A"s and those of us affected by the disease is a very small one indeed. We are all just people trying to heal and who need each other's help and the help of God to repair ourselves and head us down the road to being happy, joyous and free!
Yours in Recovery,
David
UncleLou said
Sep 11, 2005
canadianguy wrote: ... that others - your spouse, friends, boss, etc, CANNOT cause you to drink again. That decision is yours and yours alone. I find your post very awkward......We have heard the "victim cry" for so long - it gets very old ...
I understand fully that my behavior is my responsibility. No one can make me relapse, that is my stuff and mine alone. I presented the topic that way not to place my recovery on someone else, but rather to get some feedback as to her possible motives. Is it possible that she secretly wishes me to fail to somehow justify her inapropriate behavoir through all of this?
ditto said
Sep 11, 2005
Lou,
The only way to learn the answer is to ask her directly. Then you must assess whether her actions and her words are in harmony. If they are, chances are she is telling you the truth.
We can all guess but we cannot know.
I still like my theory that she is angry, frightened, and resentful and that you are bearing the brunt of that as she perceives that you are the underlying cause.
More pertinent questions to ask yourself might be: why you are placing yourself in this situation and how can you remove yourself from it.
lin0606 said
Sep 11, 2005
I guess my feeling is that her motives are really none of your business. You need to take whatever actions are necessary to protect yourself and your children, and not worry too much about what she is doing and why.
The only person you can change and control is yourself. Boundaries set on the behaviour of others do not work.
Alanon always tells us to look at our motives in our actions. What exactly are we trying to do - to protect ourselves and take care of ourselves, or to control another person? Did you go home that night ofter you had said you weren't going to because you wanted to be at home, or in the hopes of "catching her out" at something? Both AA and alanon stress being honest with yourself as the only way to healing.
Keep your own side of the street clean, and stay away as much as possible from people and places that are toxic to you.
UncleLou said
Sep 11, 2005
lin0606 wrote:
...Did you go home that night ofter you had said you weren't going to ...
Not that it matters... I never told my son I was not coming home. He asked me WHEN I was going home and I was honest, I said I didn't know. If it was my weekend with the kids my plans would have been clear. I cleared this up with him this morning and he said it was his mistake. I reassured him that none of this was his fault and I was sorry that he had to see any of this mess.
Karilynn said
Sep 11, 2005
Uncle Lou,
Frankly I find it helpful to have an A's perspective. I may be still new at this, but I welcome your thoughts.
While we all know that it is your responisbilty not to take that first drink. But it's a good reminder of what some triggers might be for our As. I'm not suggesting that we walk on eggshells. But perhaps counting to ten before we speak or think things through a bit more could be helpful.
The only thing that you have to be concerned when it comes right down to it is your sobriety. Your well-being and that of your children are the most important things.
As for Tom, doesn't sound like such a good catch if he's that inconsiderate. The no "friends" over rule, is a really good one. Why would anyone want to see their ex with another person so soon after their divorce? Doesn't make sense to me.
I can't speak for her and what her motives are. WHO CARES? The point is, is that it's causing you to be really stressed out. How is that healthy for you or your children? Take care of you and your children.
Live strong,
Karilynn
rosie light shines said
Sep 11, 2005
uncle lou, there are TONS of people who want to stomp on our recovery....we are a threat to them because as we grow/become strong within ourselves we threaten their ability to *jerk our chain* i have a brother a bio brother, who attacked ME for doing a name change so i would not have to bear the name of my rapist---my father!!!! he attacked ME!!! i wrote him an email, telling him he was OUT of my life as i would ONLY let people in my life who made me feel good about being me!!!!!
when i got into recovery 19 months ago, i swore off relationships until i FIRST fell in love with/ had a good/healthy relationship with me/ my god/ and my life....until i do???? i am goin it *solo* and its ok, i have my me/ my inner god/ my ic and my SAFE loved ones.........i wish you much peace and strength in your recovery.........peace/ rosie
lin0606 said
Sep 11, 2005
Sorry Lou, I must have misunderstood. You are divorced though, right? I can't pretend to know what your wife's motives are here - whether she really doesn't care, whether she is trying to hurt you, or whether she is just an unhappy, confused woman, but it seems clear that she doesn't consider herself married to you anymore. This might be a time to really think about the serenity prayer.
I'm sorry you have had to go through this, but a divorce is a fact. If you are to continue living in the house, the two of you need to sit down and hammer out some groundrules that you can both live with. Remember, it's a basic alanon precept that we cannot make boundaries for another person, only for ourselves.
I'm sorry if all this seems harsh, I'm not trying to be. I can hear the pain and anger in your posts. The more you focus on her, though, the less you are focuing on yourself. Let go, and let God.
Need to vent some other stuff again. See my last post for some background. Went out to dinner/movie/coffee with my AA sponsor and some others last night. My son calls me several times during the movie so I finally pick up my phone. Says he’s at a friend’s house and wants to know if I can come pick him up with some friends to go back to our house. I said no, I’m out for the night, can’t get him. I say where is your mom? It’s her weekend with you, she should come get you. He says she’s out with friends and can’t come get them now, when will I be home? I said I’m not coming home right now, not sure when I will be home, sorry. At this point I’m a little disappointed my ex can’t be there for him on her ‘weekend.’
After coffee with my friends, I get home at about 10:45. Garage door to my space opens to the sight of a white car belonging to my ex’s boyfriend. I was stunned. My son comes out to the garage apologizing that it’s HIS fault that Tom is there because he told his mother I wouldn’t be home that night. Pointing out the car, I asked my son how he felt about this. He said, ‘I don’t like it dad, but it doesn’t matter, there’s nothing I can do about it.‘ I walked through the house to go upstairs and see my ex on the love seat and Tom on the couch with his 8 year old watching TV. I said a Hello to the room as a walked past, my ex says nothing and Tom says ‘Hi Lou.’ My son and daughter are in the house with 4 or 5 of their friends over. The whole situation seems so bazaar and wrong to me I go up to my room and call my sister and my sponsor to process it all. I know that this is the type of situation that might cause me to pick up a drink if I don’t pick up the phone.
Am I nuts or should I not expect that I should be able to come home and not find my ex’s boyfriend’s car in my garage and see him sitting on my couch watching my TV? What kind of effect does this have on our kids 2 weeks after the divorce? My head is still spinning after all the tears she shed last week about how she’s not sure she made the right decision and she still loves me and she’s confused. Is she purposely pushing my buttons to drive me to relapse? I made a decision to stay away from any friendships with any women with whom there would be any possibility of a relationship these past 2 years. If I were to start dating now, it’s inconceivable I would bring the new person to my home if my kids were around. Is that stupid of me to think that way?
Anyway, Tom leaves and my sister calls to talk to my ex about how her actions can have a long lasting negative effect on our kids. I hear my ex yelling back at her. It’s Lou’s fault this whole thing happened because he told my son he would not be home tonight. Its Lou’s fault for calling other people when he got home. Tom parked in the garage out of respect for Lou because the neighbors talk and she didn’t want Lou to feel uncomfortable in front of them. Lou should be out of the house when it’s her weekend with the kids, etc.
I’m sick over this whole thing but I guess I’m getting a real reality check about what type of person my ex really is. I’m fighting really hard, talking to my sponsor and friends, going to meetings, and praying. The salt on the open wounds is excruciating. I’m deathly afraid I may get a case of the f-its, and I know were that will lead me.
(((((((((Lou))))))))))))),
I really enjoy your posts! Keep posting!
That is one tough situation you are in. You are not crazy. You can establish boundaries. If you and your ex are sharing a house due to finances, there is no reason why you or she should have to deal with an "intruder" in your own home. I would set up some boundaries and quick -- one being that neither or you will have BF or GF in the "children's home." How long is this arrangement going to be? What did the divorce decree?
Regarding her trying to make you relapse, I have found that often the A's in our life don't even consider us. In other words, it's not about you. A's are so into themselves and what their needs are that they don't STOP and think about the consequences and ramifications.
Good for you for calling your sponsor and anyone that will help you. Keep coming and join us in some of the online meetings too. Lottsa experience, strength and hope there.
Maria123
Hi Lou,
I am very new to all of this, being married to an alcoholic for 10 months and having already seen a divorce attorney. Really, no one can know your situation or what you both experienced, and we are hearing one side of the situation and the truth usually lies somewhere between.
Having said that, you have already expressed that your ex-wife is angry because of things that went on during your married years. It would be unrealistic to expect that the divorce has wiped the slate clean and that she is no longer angry or resentful at the change in her circumstances. It sounds very much like she is using this opportunity to punish you. She is wrong to do this. But, she is human.
It also sounds like you have not entirely let go of the relationship with her. Sometimes, even though we love someone, we have to let them go. Maybe she will come back in time. Maybe she wont. Right now you must look toward your own emotional health and well-being. You must be kind to yourself. Part of being kind to yourself is allowing yourself to grieve the end of your marriage and relationship. It is ok to feel sad. it is ok to feel frustrated. It is ok to have regrets. It is ok to feel anger. It is ok to feel.
You should not have stopped drinking for your ex-wife. You should have stopped drinking for you. You should have stopped because you understand the danger it places you in, both physically and mentally. You should be very proud of yourself that you gave it up. Addictions are never easy to break. So, the point is, that if you drink because you are angry at her, you are not hurting her, you are hurting you. And you are hurting future relationships with your children. And you are hurting future friendships. And you are doing something that would not solve any problems but would simply make more. You probably already know this.
Maybe you can investigate an alternative living arrangement. Can you stay with your sister until the house sells? Can you rent an apartment? If you cannot afford it alone, is it possible to live with a roommate?
I've always been told that tide turns at lowest ebb. Have faith, this too shall pass. Your writing indicates that you are both an intelligent and highly intuitive person, I have every belief that you will find the right path for you.
Sending best wishes.
The only way you can get "driven to relapse" is in a car.... Al-Anon AND AA both are consistent in their teachings, that others - your spouse, friends, boss, etc, CANNOT cause you to drink again. That decision is yours and yours alone.
I find your post very awkward... I know you are hurting, but this is a safe place for Al-Anons to share their feelings and concerns... If people hear read into your post, that we "better treat you the way you want to be treated, or we will cause you to drink again", we will go backwards, not forward.
We have heard the "victim cry" for so long - it gets very old
Tom
Lou,
You are definately not nuts to expect that your ex wouldn't bring her bf into the house with your children. She is nuts. And so is Tom, and inconsiderate and living for a thrill? You live there, and the possibility that you would come home is always there, whether you are expected or not.
Is she trying to get you to relapse? I doubt that, I agree also that she isnt even considering you or the children in this situation, just being selfish. I am having a hard time staying calm here Lou, cuz this hits so close to home for me and this crap makes me so angry and thats not a good place for me or you to be.
You and the ex definately need to establish some boundaries for the duration of time you will be living together, and not having "friends" over to the house seems like an incredibly easy one for both of you to see the wisdom of. But for some there seems to be no wisdom forthcoming at times.
Please remember the kids first, even if she doesnt. Please reassure your son that his mom's/bf's actions are most certainly not his fault. And that you love him, no matter what.
Keep the faith Lou, this too shall pass.
Thank you so much for your postings, they really let me know that the line between "A"s and those of us affected by the disease is a very small one indeed. We are all just people trying to heal and who need each other's help and the help of God to repair ourselves and head us down the road to being happy, joyous and free!
Yours in Recovery,
David
Lou,
The only way to learn the answer is to ask her directly. Then you must assess whether her actions and her words are in harmony. If they are, chances are she is telling you the truth.
We can all guess but we cannot know.
I still like my theory that she is angry, frightened, and resentful and that you are bearing the brunt of that as she perceives that you are the underlying cause.
More pertinent questions to ask yourself might be: why you are placing yourself in this situation and how can you remove yourself from it.
uncle lou, there are TONS of people who want to stomp on our recovery....we are a threat to them because as we grow/become strong within ourselves we threaten their ability to *jerk our chain* i have a brother a bio brother, who attacked ME for doing a name change so i would not have to bear the name of my rapist---my father!!!! he attacked ME!!! i wrote him an email, telling him he was OUT of my life as i would ONLY let people in my life who made me feel good about being me!!!!!
when i got into recovery 19 months ago, i swore off relationships until i FIRST fell in love with/ had a good/healthy relationship with me/ my god/ and my life....until i do???? i am goin it *solo* and its ok, i have my me/ my inner god/ my ic and my SAFE loved ones.........i wish you much peace and strength in your recovery.........peace/ rosie