My husband and I have been married for almost 28 years and have two grown children. Our oldest son, 27, just recently called to tell us he was getting a divorce, and oh yes, could he come back home to live because he now realized how “important” family is and he wants to start over. We told him yes, but only for a few months while he got himself together. Then, just days before the move, he also told us he was “in love” again with a new girl, that he now realized he never loved his wife of 4 years, and this was the real thing. I’m not sure why we said yes, but we agreed to not only let him come home, but to bring his new girlfriend. What a mistake! Upon first inspection, this waif of a girl truly looked like a junkie. 4’8” and all of 85 lbs, she was so thin she looked brittle and covered in numerous bruises. My son came to me that first morning and told me that she has a syndrome that caused bruising (Reynald's) and that she had been through so many recent traumas that I should be gentle with her because she could “snap” easily. I looked him in the eye and told him I would take that into consideration but that I would be myself as always.
She brought her cat into our new home despite the fact that we’d told our son “no cat” (my husband is allergic and we don’t like cats!), and the first days there, dumped all of her personal belongings from their moving truck right into our living room! My son explained that the many stresses he’d been under lately had left him exhausted and that I could not ask him to do another thing or he’d fall apart. The girlfriend couldn’t move because she is under Dr. Orders not to lift anything heavier than 10 lbs. My husband was furious, but we managed to bite our tongues for a few days while we stared at their hastily packed boxes of junk. Finally my daughter came over and helped them settle in, which was odd enough but very sweet to help her brother. We were exhausted from our own move to our new home.
Within 2 days I began to see signs that all was not right. The girlfriend announced that she had “lost” her ID’s during the trip up here. This was her driver’s license and her social security card. Alarm bells began to ring in our heads. How was she going to get a job? What were the actions she was going to take to secure new ID? We didn’t get any satisfactory answers.
Week two came and went. I noticed strange patterns to their days. While my husband and I were at work we’d come home and see little to nothing of either of them. We began to sense that they were sleeping all day and up all night. The only time we saw them was when they’d go in and out of the front door to sit on the porch to chain smoke and talk to each other for hours. Cases of beer would appear in the fridge and end up in the trash can in short order. Any bottles of alcohol we had stocked in our own bar were drained and left empty. When we did spend a few minutes chatting with this girl, we quickly saw that not only had she been drinking, but she was obviously quite drunk! I questioned why she wasn’t looking for a job and told her that her behavior was quickly wearing out her welcome. My son overheard this conversation, which I felt was handled well and verbally as well as emotionally blasted me for my unwelcoming attitude.
n the meantime, my son and my husband and I have had many conversations about our relationships and how to get back on track. My son has only hinted at the childhood abuse his girlfriend has had to endure in her life, and that he is the only person who hasn’t rejected her or abused her. He quickly got his resume in order, posted it on employment websites, and has had a few interviews. He continues to work via home at his part time software developer job and receives paychecks. He does pay us rent but spends every extra dime on cigarettes and alcohol for himself and this girl. While he freely admits to drinking too much, I never see him drunk. He’s never looked better, in fact. However, I do not kid myself.
Today they have been in our house for 6 weeks and 4 days. My husband and I are miserable. This girl hasn’t even begun to look for a job despite several conversations where she promises to secure ID, promises to get a job, assures us that she is “trying” to stop drinking, trying to get back on her anti-depressants, trying to find help for her mental problems… We learned that a month before she came here she had been severely beaten by her drug addicted boyfriend who is now facing felony charges in another state. She is drunk every night. She hides away as much as possible in my son’s bedroom.
This past weekend we discovered that she had violated house rules, came into our room, found our private liquor left over from a recent party, and drank all that we had. While my son and she were out on a rare day out, my husband and I searched their room and found hypodermic needles and evidence of hard drug use. We were beside ourselves in horror, shame, and worry. When they got home we told them what we’d found, asked for an explanation, and told my son that our boundaries had been violated and she had to go. He explained that in her life prior to coming here she had been an oxicoten addict with the old boyfriend, that he himself did not do hard drugs and never had, and we believed him. While he said he “understood our viewpoint”, he said he felt desperate to help her and says she literally has nowhere to go, that her own parent’s are alcoholics and abusive, and every other person she knows is an alcoholic. Rehab seems to be out of the question because that is only a place to meet worse people than when you went in – she has no insurance, etc. etc. We have not backed down from our position and want her out of our home as soon as possible.
Bottom line, this happened on Sunday. It’s Thursday today and she is still hiding up in my son’s room. We have spoken to him every night but last night, when they stayed in their room and didn’t come out. They were so quiet we even wondered if they were still alive. With each passing day I become more stressed out and anxious. We have told our son that he can stay as long as he needs to secure employment and begin his life, but she has to go. Even he is not welcome if once she leaves he doesn’t find a job and spends his days asleep and his nights awake and drinking.
Bottom line, I want her out. Yesterday wouldn’t have been soon enough. I feel outrageously foolish for letting this happen in the first place.
Please, can you give us some advice that makes sense?
kitty said
Aug 11, 2005
Please, can you give us some advice that makes sense?
I am so sorry ~ I see this is your first post. You sound like you are very loving parents.
Tough love is painful, so is watching those you love hurt themselves or make poor choices. I am sorry they have violated your private bedroom, I think that would have sent me over the edge - I probably would have thrown them both out on their ear! or called the police or something. I have a very short fuse when it comes to being manipulated.
I was married to an addict & my step-dad is an alcoholic - I wish I had some kind of advice, all I can say is stick to your boundaries. I probably wouldn't even feel comfortable with her being in the house, when I was gone! I'm sorry your son attacked you verbally, when it sounds like you are being very generous to him.
Only you can determine what you are willing to put up with. No one deserves to be used or abused & you can't save or solve other ppl's problems, only your own.
kismetstrand said
Aug 12, 2005
((((((mizcathi))))) <<hugs
There is so much I have learned here in the Al-Anon program and its taken me a long while to learn it. Not something I could pass on in 10 words or less... so my best advice is quickly find some meetings and listen/ask questions; get ahold of some literature and read, read, read; keep posting here and come on into our chat room (we have online meetings also). The more we know about the disease of Alcoholism, the better equipped we are to deal with all the many situations that come up. I see "Enabling" in your story, not so much on your part but on your son's part. Enabling is doing for others what they should do for themself. Sure we all feel sorry for people who have had horrible abusive pasts...but if we don't allow them the chance to learn how to live their own life, how do they learn? There is a reason alcoholics choose people who "caretake" - it allows them to continue doing nothing for themselves. They know how to play on all the sympathy buttons. The best thing we can do is learn not to enable, learn to set boundaries. Buying an alcoholic alcohol isn't helping any. Alcoholism is a progressive disease that will result in insanity and death if not arrested. Rehab works to dry the alcoholic out, but they also need a program of recovery for afterwards. Some alcoholics drink to drown out the pain of past issues, not knowing how to deal with their feelings about it. A recovery program helps them to be able to look at their past and to learn how to deal with their feelings and resolve all those past issues and move on to a healthier way of life. They have to want recovery though. We can't force it on them. If someone is continuing to enable the alcoholic, they have no reason to change, to seek recovery. I once heard someone say "its okay to love an alcoholic...just don't love them to death." (The more I learn, the more that makes sense.) Best wishes to you, please keep coming back and let us know how you're doing.
Luv, Kis
kathy570 said
Aug 12, 2005
Dear Miscathi,
((((Hugs & Prayers to you & family)))))
You are in a tough spot. A I agree with the replies. The only other thing I can suggest from my own experiance is:
1 -Get address of shelter, treatment etc & give them to son
2- Set a date for her to move out by.
3 - Stick to your boundries
Alanon has taught me a lot. It is a great lifeline for me expecially with this board & the meeting rooms. I also attend face to face meetings which are vry helpful also.
Go to meetings, read all you can about alcoholism, co-dependancy, enabling. There are lots of pamphlets at meeting for you , hubby & son.
Keep doing what you are doing & Keep Coming Back to Alanon. The people here are fantastic, do not judge and will give you faith, hope & strenght.
Yours in Recovery
Kathy570
lin0606 said
Aug 12, 2005
A line that I have found useful, when people attack me for having boundaries, and for enforcing them - "I'm sorry you feel that way. I care about you, but I just can't allow whatever" We need to let those around us know that us taking care of ourselves is not a rejection of them, and that we need to do what we feel is right, no matter how others view it. Not always easy, when manipulation and guilting are being used.
Stay the course. You know that this situation is not healthy, for anyone involved.
marmare said
Aug 12, 2005
Hi,
I am so sorry you have to go through this tough time. I can only tell you what I did with my sons, when the two oldest need a place to stay, we set a 3 month boundary in our case, but yours may be shorter. (We couldn't get rent out of ours) A week before the three month mark I went to them and told them you will have to be moved out next week. On the day before the three month mark, I went to them and said, so tomorrow's your moving day. Neither one of them gave me grief. One of them actually moved home one year later and paid rent up front. LOL
Your son sounds like a giving and caring man. Maybe you could invite him to an Alanon meeting. Set your boundaries, be up front and honest, and stick to them. Hang in there.
Hugs Mary
mizcathi said
Aug 12, 2005
Thanks everyone for your replies. Typing out our story last night made me painfully aware that I had reached my breaking point. My husband and I called my son downstairs and told him she had to go "preferably tonight, but at least tomorrow". I did lose my temper, but controlled my angry outburst and let her know in no uncertain terms that she could no longer stay in my house and she had to go. Her solution was to cry and hold on as hard as she could. She hadn't packed any of her things since telling her she had to leave this past Sunday. Her soluton was to walk over to the local ER and ask to be committed, but we think she chickened out because we found them both sleeping on my front porch this morning at 5:30 AM. He said he couldn't leave her outside sleeping and he'd been up all night sitting with her because he knew his Dad would follow up on his threat to call the cops if he snuck her inside.
My son was oddly calm through the entire thing, however he was angry this morning, though he never for a second lost his cool. She tried calling all of her friends and her parents. Nobody, including her folks, would return her calls. Boohoo. Guess she's run out of everyone except the good heart of my kid, but obviously there is something wrong with him to put up with this lowlife. He said he couldn't put her on the street, then he had his paycheck from his partner Western Union'd to him, packed up what they could, and took off together to who knows where. I've come home from work and there isn't even a note from them.
I'm not sure we'll ever see him again. All I know is if he chooses alcohol and this girl over a family that loves him, I guess he's pretty lost. They've known each other for less than 4 months and he's not even divorced.
I did call his business partner who had been his childhood friend for well over ten years last night. He, too, said they were all worried about Eric when he left with this girl and he had been expecting a call from me. He said everyone detests this girl and they'd all had to kick her out of their places at one time or another, only to have her come right back. They refer to her as the "lost cause" and were shocked that Eric felt he had to protect her. "Dude, you ought to try and fix yourself before you take this lost cause on." So, we're not alone, but I am dreadfully afraid I've lost my son forever.
Thanks for your comments.
Cat
kitty said
Aug 12, 2005
Cat,
Wow, that is a huge follow through on the part of you & your husband. I realise it must be very bittersweet, as you are rightfully concerned about your precious son.
Undoubtedly, your son knows you love him. Inititally when I read your post the first time, I wondered if he was an addict too. Unfortunately, this disease is so confusing & painful. I'm such a hopeless codependent, if there were only one addict in a 100 mile radius they would come to me like a shooting star.
I am hopeless when it comes to any detachment, I care so much about everyone else. I am desperately trying to put myself into focus, I would like to have one iota of the selfishness that the A's do. Progress not perfection, I know, I know. We all must save ourselves.
Blood is thicker than water, no doubt he will come around... you are the only mother he has.
When I was married to my addict (4 yrs, 2 mo) -- for almost a whole year, I didn't talk to my mother who I love more than would life & would sacrifice myself for in a moment, if it could alleviate any of her pain (I know, it's sick codep, thinking, just being honest) for an entire YEAR. My ex was jealous of my love for her & my poor mother said she couldn't hear me crying over the same things & it never changing. So I 'appeased' them both.
I called & came home when I was ready. I left me ex on vacation with 3 bikinis, abandonning my career of 16 years, the life I had built & all of my friends and ALL OF MY BELONGINGS. To get back at me he kept everything I ever owned. Sad but true & I'm free.
My husband and I have been married for almost 28 years and have two grown children. Our oldest son, 27, just recently called to tell us he was getting a divorce, and oh yes, could he come back home to live because he now realized how “important” family is and he wants to start over. We told him yes, but only for a few months while he got himself together. Then, just days before the move, he also told us he was “in love” again with a new girl, that he now realized he never loved his wife of 4 years, and this was the real thing. I’m not sure why we said yes, but we agreed to not only let him come home, but to bring his new girlfriend. What a mistake! Upon first inspection, this waif of a girl truly looked like a junkie. 4’8” and all of 85 lbs, she was so thin she looked brittle and covered in numerous bruises. My son came to me that first morning and told me that she has a syndrome that caused bruising (Reynald's) and that she had been through so many recent traumas that I should be gentle with her because she could “snap” easily. I looked him in the eye and told him I would take that into consideration but that I would be myself as always.
She brought her cat into our new home despite the fact that we’d told our son “no cat” (my husband is allergic and we don’t like cats!), and the first days there, dumped all of her personal belongings from their moving truck right into our living room! My son explained that the many stresses he’d been under lately had left him exhausted and that I could not ask him to do another thing or he’d fall apart. The girlfriend couldn’t move because she is under Dr. Orders not to lift anything heavier than 10 lbs. My husband was furious, but we managed to bite our tongues for a few days while we stared at their hastily packed boxes of junk. Finally my daughter came over and helped them settle in, which was odd enough but very sweet to help her brother. We were exhausted from our own move to our new home.
Within 2 days I began to see signs that all was not right. The girlfriend announced that she had “lost” her ID’s during the trip up here. This was her driver’s license and her social security card. Alarm bells began to ring in our heads. How was she going to get a job? What were the actions she was going to take to secure new ID? We didn’t get any satisfactory answers.
Week two came and went. I noticed strange patterns to their days. While my husband and I were at work we’d come home and see little to nothing of either of them. We began to sense that they were sleeping all day and up all night. The only time we saw them was when they’d go in and out of the front door to sit on the porch to chain smoke and talk to each other for hours. Cases of beer would appear in the fridge and end up in the trash can in short order. Any bottles of alcohol we had stocked in our own bar were drained and left empty. When we did spend a few minutes chatting with this girl, we quickly saw that not only had she been drinking, but she was obviously quite drunk! I questioned why she wasn’t looking for a job and told her that her behavior was quickly wearing out her welcome. My son overheard this conversation, which I felt was handled well and verbally as well as emotionally blasted me for my unwelcoming attitude.
n the meantime, my son and my husband and I have had many conversations about our relationships and how to get back on track. My son has only hinted at the childhood abuse his girlfriend has had to endure in her life, and that he is the only person who hasn’t rejected her or abused her. He quickly got his resume in order, posted it on employment websites, and has had a few interviews. He continues to work via home at his part time software developer job and receives paychecks. He does pay us rent but spends every extra dime on cigarettes and alcohol for himself and this girl. While he freely admits to drinking too much, I never see him drunk. He’s never looked better, in fact. However, I do not kid myself.
Today they have been in our house for 6 weeks and 4 days. My husband and I are miserable. This girl hasn’t even begun to look for a job despite several conversations where she promises to secure ID, promises to get a job, assures us that she is “trying” to stop drinking, trying to get back on her anti-depressants, trying to find help for her mental problems… We learned that a month before she came here she had been severely beaten by her drug addicted boyfriend who is now facing felony charges in another state. She is drunk every night. She hides away as much as possible in my son’s bedroom.
This past weekend we discovered that she had violated house rules, came into our room, found our private liquor left over from a recent party, and drank all that we had. While my son and she were out on a rare day out, my husband and I searched their room and found hypodermic needles and evidence of hard drug use. We were beside ourselves in horror, shame, and worry. When they got home we told them what we’d found, asked for an explanation, and told my son that our boundaries had been violated and she had to go. He explained that in her life prior to coming here she had been an oxicoten addict with the old boyfriend, that he himself did not do hard drugs and never had, and we believed him. While he said he “understood our viewpoint”, he said he felt desperate to help her and says she literally has nowhere to go, that her own parent’s are alcoholics and abusive, and every other person she knows is an alcoholic. Rehab seems to be out of the question because that is only a place to meet worse people than when you went in – she has no insurance, etc. etc. We have not backed down from our position and want her out of our home as soon as possible.
Bottom line, I want her out. Yesterday wouldn’t have been soon enough. I feel outrageously foolish for letting this happen in the first place.
Please, can you give us some advice that makes sense?
Please, can you give us some advice that makes sense?
Tough love is painful, so is watching those you love hurt themselves or make poor choices. I am sorry they have violated your private bedroom, I think that would have sent me over the edge - I probably would have thrown them both out on their ear! or called the police or something. I have a very short fuse when it comes to being manipulated.
I was married to an addict & my step-dad is an alcoholic - I wish I had some kind of advice, all I can say is stick to your boundaries. I probably wouldn't even feel comfortable with her being in the house, when I was gone! I'm sorry your son attacked you verbally, when it sounds like you are being very generous to him.
Only you can determine what you are willing to put up with. No one deserves to be used or abused & you can't save or solve other ppl's problems, only your own.
((((((mizcathi))))) <<hugs
There is so much I have learned here in the Al-Anon program and its taken me a long while to learn it. Not something I could pass on in 10 words or less... so my best advice is quickly find some meetings and listen/ask questions; get ahold of some literature and read, read, read; keep posting here and come on into our chat room (we have online meetings also). The more we know about the disease of Alcoholism, the better equipped we are to deal with all the many situations that come up. I see "Enabling" in your story, not so much on your part but on your son's part. Enabling is doing for others what they should do for themself. Sure we all feel sorry for people who have had horrible abusive pasts...but if we don't allow them the chance to learn how to live their own life, how do they learn? There is a reason alcoholics choose people who "caretake" - it allows them to continue doing nothing for themselves. They know how to play on all the sympathy buttons. The best thing we can do is learn not to enable, learn to set boundaries. Buying an alcoholic alcohol isn't helping any. Alcoholism is a progressive disease that will result in insanity and death if not arrested. Rehab works to dry the alcoholic out, but they also need a program of recovery for afterwards. Some alcoholics drink to drown out the pain of past issues, not knowing how to deal with their feelings about it. A recovery program helps them to be able to look at their past and to learn how to deal with their feelings and resolve all those past issues and move on to a healthier way of life. They have to want recovery though. We can't force it on them. If someone is continuing to enable the alcoholic, they have no reason to change, to seek recovery. I once heard someone say "its okay to love an alcoholic...just don't love them to death." (The more I learn, the more that makes sense.) Best wishes to you, please keep coming back and let us know how you're doing.
Luv, Kis
Dear Miscathi,
((((Hugs & Prayers to you & family)))))
You are in a tough spot. A I agree with the replies. The only other thing I can suggest from my own experiance is:
1 -Get address of shelter, treatment etc & give them to son
2- Set a date for her to move out by.
3 - Stick to your boundries
Alanon has taught me a lot. It is a great lifeline for me expecially with this board & the meeting rooms. I also attend face to face meetings which are vry helpful also.
Go to meetings, read all you can about alcoholism, co-dependancy, enabling. There are lots of pamphlets at meeting for you , hubby & son.
Keep doing what you are doing & Keep Coming Back to Alanon. The people here are fantastic, do not judge and will give you faith, hope & strenght.
Yours in Recovery
Kathy570
Hi,
I am so sorry you have to go through this tough time. I can only tell you what I did with my sons, when the two oldest need a place to stay, we set a 3 month boundary in our case, but yours may be shorter. (We couldn't get rent out of ours) A week before the three month mark I went to them and told them you will have to be moved out next week. On the day before the three month mark, I went to them and said, so tomorrow's your moving day. Neither one of them gave me grief. One of them actually moved home one year later and paid rent up front. LOL
Your son sounds like a giving and caring man. Maybe you could invite him to an Alanon meeting. Set your boundaries, be up front and honest, and stick to them. Hang in there.
Hugs Mary
Thanks everyone for your replies. Typing out our story last night made me painfully aware that I had reached my breaking point. My husband and I called my son downstairs and told him she had to go "preferably tonight, but at least tomorrow". I did lose my temper, but controlled my angry outburst and let her know in no uncertain terms that she could no longer stay in my house and she had to go. Her solution was to cry and hold on as hard as she could. She hadn't packed any of her things since telling her she had to leave this past Sunday. Her soluton was to walk over to the local ER and ask to be committed, but we think she chickened out because we found them both sleeping on my front porch this morning at 5:30 AM. He said he couldn't leave her outside sleeping and he'd been up all night sitting with her because he knew his Dad would follow up on his threat to call the cops if he snuck her inside.
My son was oddly calm through the entire thing, however he was angry this morning, though he never for a second lost his cool. She tried calling all of her friends and her parents. Nobody, including her folks, would return her calls. Boohoo. Guess she's run out of everyone except the good heart of my kid, but obviously there is something wrong with him to put up with this lowlife. He said he couldn't put her on the street, then he had his paycheck from his partner Western Union'd to him, packed up what they could, and took off together to who knows where. I've come home from work and there isn't even a note from them.
I'm not sure we'll ever see him again. All I know is if he chooses alcohol and this girl over a family that loves him, I guess he's pretty lost. They've known each other for less than 4 months and he's not even divorced.
I did call his business partner who had been his childhood friend for well over ten years last night. He, too, said they were all worried about Eric when he left with this girl and he had been expecting a call from me. He said everyone detests this girl and they'd all had to kick her out of their places at one time or another, only to have her come right back. They refer to her as the "lost cause" and were shocked that Eric felt he had to protect her. "Dude, you ought to try and fix yourself before you take this lost cause on." So, we're not alone, but I am dreadfully afraid I've lost my son forever.
Thanks for your comments.
Cat
Cat,
Wow, that is a huge follow through on the part of you & your husband. I realise it must be very bittersweet, as you are rightfully concerned about your precious son.
Undoubtedly, your son knows you love him. Inititally when I read your post the first time, I wondered if he was an addict too. Unfortunately, this disease is so confusing & painful. I'm such a hopeless codependent, if there were only one addict in a 100 mile radius they would come to me like a shooting star.
I am hopeless when it comes to any detachment, I care so much about everyone else. I am desperately trying to put myself into focus, I would like to have one iota of the selfishness that the A's do. Progress not perfection, I know, I know. We all must save ourselves.
Blood is thicker than water, no doubt he will come around... you are the only mother he has.
When I was married to my addict (4 yrs, 2 mo) -- for almost a whole year, I didn't talk to my mother who I love more than would life & would sacrifice myself for in a moment, if it could alleviate any of her pain (I know, it's sick codep, thinking, just being honest) for an entire YEAR. My ex was jealous of my love for her & my poor mother said she couldn't hear me crying over the same things & it never changing. So I 'appeased' them both.
I called & came home when I was ready. I left me ex on vacation with 3 bikinis, abandonning my career of 16 years, the life I had built & all of my friends and ALL OF MY BELONGINGS. To get back at me he kept everything I ever owned. Sad but true & I'm free.
keep sharing, there is a lot of love here!