This has been a week-- or more. My 'A' is pic-pic-nit-pic constantly-- sometimes I feel like he sees me as more of a child than an adult. That's okay-- maybe you can laugh when you read the latter part of this post.... Last Friday we went out with several other friends. The 'A' of course was obliterated. The kids stayed with my mom-- and I wound up dragging him home with him throwing up in the driveway and me hoping that maybe the episode was his "big one" for a while. Opps on my assumption. Saturday the kids wanted to stay again (and who can blame them... more on that later...) so I said okay. The 'A' and his newest obsession (what is it with this obsession thing? Is it only him, or is this just something that seems to occur?), the "garage" he's building... (rolling eyes... like we can afford this)... so it's hot, and him and the neighbor (who also has a problem however thats another story) are drinking "because it's hot". (okay whatever). So then the "A" comes in the house and says he's going to take care of somethings and off he goes. That was probably around... 3 pm ish-- he told me to go ahead and cook dinner etc and he'd be back later. Soon it's 8 pm and now he's calling me to say that he's out "scouting" with another friend of his and will be home soon. Soon it's 10:30 and I'm beginning to wonder what in the world. I'm hungry-- when am I ever gonna learn to quit sitting around and wasting my time on this person and his whims? So I ate-- and I start calling around because the "A" has been having vehicle problems and I'd like to know if I need to call in the guard to go find him in the hills. Of course I call around and find him at the first friends drinking in the garage (If you can believe this every one of my neighbors has a drinking problem... I gotta start numbering them or something ha ha). Anyway I told the wife "well thanks, glad he could bother to call me"... of course the "A" has conviently turned off his cell or just isn't answering it anymore... so I can't "find" him. I guess I'm just not supposed to care anymore. Anyway, he was beyond obliterated. He came home and he couldn't even understand what I said as I'm venting (of course pointlessly) at him for not bothering to call or even let me know if he's okay-- so he starts the "I'm sorry I'm sorry" and sits on the couch. Next thing I know he gets up and goes outside. I thought he was turning off the sprinklers. 15-20 min goes by and he doesn't come back in. So I made the sorry mistake of going out to see if he's okay. He's not anywhere. So I wait a bit, then I get the flashlight and start searching the 2 + acreage thinking "oh crap when if he's passed out in the cows field" or hurt himself somewhere-- it's not a real great idea to be wandering out in the dark. I can't find him. I look and look, then I think maybe he went back to the friends house, I can see their lights on. I call. They havne't seen him. I look for him again and can't find him. I wonder where he's wandered to. He didn't drive thank god but what am I supposed to do? So I called the friends again and then are now worried because it's VERY late and they are concerned because he's never done this before and all I can think is somethings really wrong. So they get their 4-wheeler, and the husband goes out searching and calling the "A"'s name, and the wife and I are on foot searching everything from barns to shelters, to their horse pen and hay storage... by midnight we hadn't seen anything and I was frantic. I let them go home and I went in the house. I cried and cried. I tried to rest on my bed, but I couldn't, at 1 am I called my mom, I has lost it. By 1:30 or so, he finially comes walking down the sidewalk and into the house. He's still so out of it I don't think he has any idea of whats going on. I hugged him because I was so thankful he was alive and not dead in the cow pasture and put him to bed. Then next day... man when you think you get somewhere, you get nowhere... I expressed myself through tears and sobs how baddly I wanted him to seek help. I BEGGED "please please please get help just please get help" and he hugged me and told me "how embarrassed and ashamed he was of hurting me and putting me through that"-- and yet underneath, I sensed that he was expecting me to just "accept it for what it was". Like an act of God or something and I was supposed to "get over it". He didn't say that, but that was-- dunno, just the feeling. I told him about the friends and their worry and my worry and he was AWARE of what we were doing and that we were out looking for him but 'supposedly' he was passed out on the back porch and too embarrassed to come out when he realized what was going on-- was he at all? How can 3 people search the entire grounds and manage to miss him on the back porch? I don't understand it. I think he just told me what he thought I wanted to hear, he told me he didn't want beer to ruin what good things we had and that he never wanted to lose me, etc etc (insert generalized bs here). He told me that from now on he'd try to eliminate the situations where he would be drinking too much-- riding home on public transport instead of the "buddys truck" etc, no longer trying to stay so much in situations where it's (as he put it) "too easy for him". I felt such relief. Maybe he heard me. Maybe this time he really heard me. He missed work that day because he was too drunk (still) to get there. The next day we had a party to attend and he did not drink. I saw so much of the "old him" -- the patience, the kindness... the caring. I was so happy. Yesterday-- a full 24 hours of sobriety later-- we've got a beer in our hands. I have never felt such saddness, guilt, disgust, anger, resentment, hatred, disillusion... I could go on and on. His uncle was in town so of course they're just going to "have a few". I had to pick the uncle up from the airport and he offered to buy some beer and I told him that the "A" probably wouldn't drink and he said "really" and I said "yeah really" and it felt good to say it, to feel it. What was I thinking, maybe I am the crazy one. So when "A" gets home from work heres the beer in hand. I looked at him and I think my mouth hit the ground. I said "I thought you weren't going to do that anymore" and he said "do what" and I said "drink" and he said "I never said that". Now I really had to back up. What part about how he loves me and doesn't want to hurt me and how doesn't want this to ruin our marriage or our family and he's standing their drinking a beer did I not understand. I don't know if I have cried like that in a long time. I felt like my world was tumbling and crashing and my whole heart was being smashed under someones foot. I told him that he needed to stop all together. He told me that he dind't have a problem because he's only a social drinker and that he only has a few and that he only gets out of hand once in a while. He said that he didn't think that my dad has a drinking problem (to which I said really-- is that why he can't go without out it?). The "A" goes on to say that he's not like his brother because he's too extreme and he'll never be that way and he's more like his dad who's (as he put it) "gone through his hard times but you didn't see him getting out of hand and he drank while we were down there" (visiting). and I said "and you aren't your dad". and he said "no I'm not". I don't know that going into the play by play will help-- you can imagine-- his drinking is because he can't handle his job and then is disillusioned with our marriage because he didn't know what he was expecting "but this wasn't it" and that because I don't clean (not kidding folks) the bathroom 4 hours at a shot that he is stressed and he doesn't want to come home. Now I've not known alot of super clean freaks, but he isn't one of them, and I've never seen anyone being driven to drink due to a dirty tub. And besides it's okay because he's just a "social drinker"-- oh look honey the Schawns mans here, better have a beer. So as I'm in tears pouring my heart out to him about how he needs help and he's destroying this family he's finishing off his beer telling me how awful he feels about the whole thing but he can't take any of it back. Then the uncle shows up. And as I'm standing in the kitchen crying my eyes out, I hear "A" say-- "wanna beer" and the uncle says "Oh Apple said that you weren't drinking" and to which "A" says (please recall all the love and affection 30 sec before and how sorry he is and how I'm the best thing that ever happened to him etc etc etc)... "she talks to much". And off to the porch they go. Cheers! I cried. I couldn't look at him. I locked myself into the bathroom and cleaned the shower until quite literaly my rag fell apart, in 2 peices. I went to do some laundry when he walked in and said "So what did I piss you off again honey" and I just said "no" and he said "well if it's about me telling him you talk to much, whatever comes out between you and me will come out but I don't want you talking to anybody else about our problems"-- and I said "I didn't say anything to him, my understanding was that you weren't going to drink and he offered to buy beer and I told him I didn't think you wanted any, I was trying to save you from feeling like you had to have one (oh man where was my logic)". He just looked at me and said "oh". Needless to say I cried -- from 5 pm until around 1:30 am when I finially got up out of our bed and slept on the livingroom floor because I was so disgusted with how he'd treated me all night that I coudln't be in the same room with him. He got me up at 3 am promptly as he's getting ready to walk out the door and can't seem to figure out why I'm in the other room. I didn't go back to sleep. My heads racing. This isn't going to work. He lives in his world where he's trying to drag us into his drunken illogical fantasy and I'm sober-- I can't believe his lie-- I can't live it with him, no more than he can let it go to be with me. We can't even share the same value system at this point because where I am willing to take the responsibility he will not, with everthing, us, the marriage, our own faults, the kids, everything. I think I have to leave him. I want to stay but how can this work? How can he continue to hate me and the kids treat us this way-- to sit there and tell me how much he loves me and needs me and how he doesn't want to lose this and drink a beer and put me down infront of the family-- guess he put me in my place now didn't he? I can't cope with this--I'm not allowed to care about him or want to know where he's at, or when he's coming home or who he's with, he's going to do whatever whenever and I had just stay outta his way-- and man, do not, NOT NOT even tell him he's sick, he's wrong, or that he's got a problem because he is NOT about to acknowledge that AT ALL. I sit there and see him and know that I'm not enough, my love, my tears, my hope my vows NONE of it-- that stupid Bud is more important than all the promises and dreams that I thought we shared. To know that I don't matter-- to know that I'm not "allowed" to care-- or at least show that I care about him-- or to acknowlege his problem-- or the problems that it's causing in our family, that I should sit in silence and suffer and take it and accept it and be happy I guess about it. For those that want a laugh-- he tells me that maybe I should hire a house cleaner to come clean the house since maybe I need some help (gee never occured to him that maybe HE could help out now eh?)-- so you know what-- I'm hiring one, at least then maybe he can have another person to blame his problem on. As I told him before the uncle showed up-- "You had better tell me now if I am ever going to be enough because if I'm not then tell me now and let me go because I'm not going to spend the rest of my life trying to make you happy and it's never going to be enough because I will never be happy"-- it's like having everything you ever wanted at arms length and then being told "you better be happy because this is as close as you'll ever get". I told him that I would try to eliminate all his listed stressors at the house-- but then asked him "and what happens when that isn't enough" and he said "I don't know". I hate him. I love him. I hate who I am becoming over this. Apple

 

(((((((((((((Apple)))))))))))))))

I am so sorry you are going through all of this pain right now.  I know exactly how you feel believe it or not, a lot of us have that same story.

For me, I hit bottom last January and all I knew was that there was something wrong with me and i had to get help or I was going to cry myself to death.  So I started going to AlAnon meetings and i tell you what I instantly felt better, knowing that there were people out there going throught the same things.  And the more I went and listened to other people the more I learned about myself and my husband, my father, and my sister. 

All of the hatred and rage turned into compassion as I came to understand that they were not doing this to hurt ME, they COULD NOT CONTROL THEMSELVES.  Until they want to get help, there is nothing in the world that I could possibly do to make them stop.  They all love me very much but until Alanon, I couldn't see that.  I thought "If they really loved me, they wouldn't drink or drug" but this is simply not true.

Have you been to any meetings face to face or online?  If you want relief from this pain and desperation, I hope you can find a meeting soon.  I feel for you Apple and you will be in my prayers. I'm glad you posted and welcome. Keep coming back and post as much as you want.  I have found many people here that are very supportive.

I Hope for recovery

Julie

(((((((((((Apple)))))))),

It is so ahrd to live with an active alcoholic. They are so selfish without knowing it. I have had many broken promises about "quiting" that now when he says, "Honey I am done doing this." I say "prove it." That's all I can do. I have choosen this man for better or for worse, i was hoping the worse would be later in life, when we were to old to go to the bathroom without help. But I guess it is now.

I know at anytime I can leave, it is my choice, and I alone am the one to make it. I battled with myself about 4 or 5 months ago about whay am I staying, and should I leave. I prayed and prayed about leaving my "A", actually more like throwing him out. And when I was talking to my sponsor, it came to me, I am with him because I still have hope for his recovery. I believe in my heart that my HP will tell me when to leave, or if I even need to.

When my "A" goes out and drinks/uses, I come to meetings, I call my sponsor, I make a post here, nothing ever can stop that pain, but I always feel better after I take care of me.

All I can do is listen, but that is something I am good at, and more than willing to do. Keep coming back.

Many days I get so sad & angry at myself for being sucked back in, slipping - & all of the times "I was to blame" for someone else's life choices but today, it just makes me laugh - it is so ridiculous to me, that others would blame me for them taking drugs!!!  My ex husband is an addict & everything was always everyone else's fault - & he was a "catholic" so, we all know we have freedom of choice!  It is just ludicrous, insane - that adults can actually think that.

Alas, I really don't understand the way the A's think, only that they will use anything to justify their out of control behavior, they lie to themselves constantly & cannot deal with the truth about anything.

Someone told me once, their lives are such a miserable sham & they have no respect for themselves   of course, they have to belittle you, to make themselves feel better.

Only you can determine when "enuf is enuf" for you!

Nurture yourself!  Take care of you.

Dear Apple,

I have two children, ages 17 and 13.  I just started to realize that my husband was having a problem with drinking after my youngest daughter was born.

I have gone through the continual drama of living with an alcoholic for almost 13 years now.  They (the alcoholic) will always try to shift the blame on you.  (Remember the three "C's"... you didn't cause it, can't control it, can't change him).  In the earlier days, he was occasionally apologetic, but that doesn't happen very often now.  I've tried begging, pleading, crying, arguing, calling in friends, outpatient programs, inpatient programs, sending him to jail for 6 months for breaking his probation (from a DUI) by calling his probation officer and reporting him.  I've tried shaming him.  I've thrown a few things at his head.  I've tried patience, understanding, kindness, love, making suggestions, being in touch with his sponsor, interventions.

I have wasted 13 years.  I am now 50 and am working toward getting a job (hoping to hear this week on a position) and getting him out of the house.  Most of all, I am sad and guilty about my children because I didn't do this sooner.

Alcoholism is a sad, sad story.  When is enuf, enuf?....there's nothing like the present.  My new mantra is "Stop living in the problem and move into the solution."

I don't feel I've wasted this time because we usually only learn from our failures, but if I had taken the steps years ago to get me and and kids out of this situation, we could have had very different lives...at least lives without alcoholic dramas.

Much love to you.

 

 

I think the part about the kids is the hardest. If it were just me I could weather this, maybe on different terms... but my kids have seen so much, too soon... it's affecting them, how they act around others, around us, me, especially around him. He see's it and blames me. "What have you been saying to the kids" and I say "nothing" and he says "well they're acting all weird around me now". Gee I wonder why? When all he does is play Napoleon, barking out orders like we were in basic or something... the kids are never right, never did enough chores, never did them right.. whatever always them... my son is scared of him... he tells my mom "Gramma you just have no idea, you just have no idea"... we went to pick them up from my moms the other week and when I went in and we didn't come out fast enough he somehow snuck into the house and then started yelling "Why aren't you ready? Do I need to kick your butt!" on and on... my mom was horrified, I'm standing at the bottom of the stairs wondering what in the world... of course we'd been golfing and I'd sat at the parkinglot waiting on him for over an hour but he can't wait 10 min for the kids to get ready... ?? I'm an adult, I can choose what situation I am going to be or not be in... I can speak up and back if I choose... my kids... they are in a place where they did not choose this either and in a way I feel like I fail them for staying... I feel like I fail him for leaving and I feel like I fail me for not knowing what to do. :) Thank you again for the supportive post :) (((hugs))))

it is amazing your story is so similar to mine.  I am in EXACTLY the same place ...

 

My husband will not admit his problems either.  He insists that i knew he liked beer when i met him.  I understand your feelings, of love and hate.. Leave or Stay.. I have those same confusing thoughts every day !!  I have left my husband several times in the last 6 months..

I wish i had something i could say that would help but keep coming here.. It does make you feel better knowing you are not alone.

TAMMY

 

Dear Apple,

The situation with the kids only gets worse as they grow older.  My 17 yr old son understandably has a horrid, angry relationship with my A husband.  And, of course, my husband only wants to pick at my son's faults.  He insists that my son "uses" his dad's alcoholism as an excuse when he screws up.  My husband refuses to see how his alcoholism has messed up the kids, our family, our relationships.  He will not see that his alcoholism is the root cause of 95% of our problems.  And he insists that I am the cause of his difficulty with my son.  Like everything would be okay if I hadn't blown the whistle on him...sure, no one would see his drunk walk; no one would hear his slurring words; no one would notice his insane rantings.

Sorry, now I'm ranting (smile).

If there is a way out, another road you can take...I encourage you to take care of yourself and the kids.

Hugs.  God Bless.

Hi Apple,

I am sure there are many here who have been where you are, including me.

I used to feel guilty for marrying an alcoholic, and so causing my daughter to have an alcoholic father, but now I have a diffeerent perspective.

There are a lot of dunks in this world, and they are increasing everyday as the stress of this post 9/11 world gets worse.  We simply cannot protect our children from the alcoholics in the world.  My parents tried, and succeeded for quite a while, and perhaps that is why I knew nothing about alcoholism and it signs and fell for my husband's phony act hook line and sinker.  I met him at my college library believe it or not.  He was an instructor and I was a student.  Not my teacher though, that would have been too icky for me.

Our "dates" consisted of tutoring sessions at the library, we never even went on a "real date" until after we married.  We were just two bookworms who found each other...right...what a dope I was!  We never lived together before getting married, and he never spent the night, we only knew each other through our study dates. I never saw him drink, never smelled alcohol on him, and the subject of alcohol addiction never came up.  I was taken in by his successful act, like so many others still are. 

At least my daughter is being educated about addiction.  She is turned off to any sort of drinking.  I tell her to look at her father, laying on the floor, drooling, with empty bottles all around him, drunk out of his mind, Mr. Brilliant Scientist/Body Builder/Martial Arts Expert/Math Teacher/College Professor/Tall Dark and Handsome laying on the floor drooling in the middle of the day...what a picture.  I ask her "Do you think that Dad knew he would end up like this when he started drinking?".  Of course she said "no", then I tell her that is what addiction is like, it takes over your life, so better to not ever touch addictive substances. 

Of course I wish daughter's education about addiction was not so up close and personal, but at least it is having a severe deterrent effect on her. 

There is nothing we can do about our children's father being an alcoholic...that will always be so whether we leave the marriage or not...so...when we say our chidren deserve better, keep in mind that there is no getting a better father for them... either way they will have to come to terms with the fact that their father is an alcoholic.  In my experience men do either of two things after they divorce...drink more...or try to get sober.  If they drink more, they will now have the right to have the children visit them without you to supervise, he may drive drunk with them, etc....no easy answers here.

I myself have chosen to stay...for now...since it suits my needs for the time being.  I know others have made other choices though.

My husband treats my daughter similarly to how yoo write about your husband.  Super high standards for them, but he can be a total jerk.  It has been hard for daughter to keep her tongue (she like me is a master of sarcastic comebacks ), but she has learned to as Dad can be very verbally abusive if he has any excuse to be.  We have little hand signals that we use behind his back to signal to the other when he has been drinking and to watch out, and not talk to him.  Once he is knocked out sometimes we have a little laugh at his expense to see his wierd  "semi-coma" positions (it would just be too far of a stretch to call this state of consciousness "sleeping"), or what is happening to him.  Many times he falls asleep while he is chewing and then loses consciousness and his head tilts forward and the food falls back out of his mouth and into his lap. or floor...funny in the teenage range of humorous situations.  That helps her cut him down to size as he feels and says he is so far above us in station in life etc. that he can "barely bear to live with us". 

Yeah...right...whatever!

Try try try to learn to focus on you and the kids.  Two years ago I would have been out there in the lawn like you looking for husband like a chicken with my head cut off.  Now I would not have even have noticed he was gone probably and if I did, I would hope and MAYBE pray he would make it home safe, but if he did not...he would have just met his inevitable end.  I learned the hard way I cannot stop his path of self destruction, no matter how much I wanted to. 

Learning to resign myself that this is simply the path that husband has chosen, to die and early and painful death like to many from alcohol, this is simply his right as a human being.  Just like many others choose and early and painful death through cigarettes or overeating. 

I hope you can try to focus on YOU and now whether or not he is drinking, or with whom or where he is.

We are here for you...

Love,

Isabela