Hi there - I'm brand new here, and hope I'm in the right place! I have a question about a good friend.
A little background; I'm a 43yo woman, he's a 46yo man with whom I work, pretty closely I should add. I'd been attracted to him, and got up the guts to invite him for a drink one night. He accepted, and we had a 7hour date! We found that we have SO much in common; life experiences, opinions, etc. Talked non-stop about every subject imaginable and had a blast - nothing physical. We both decided that nothing should be rushed, because of the fact that we do work together. Over the course of the next few weeks, we had a second and a third date, all of them included alcohol, but not what I considered to excess.
About a month and a half ago, he told me that he's an alcoholic. While I've never had a problem with addiction, have had family and friends who have, so I know a bit about it from a secondhand perspective - I was not shocked or discouraged when he told me his story. He'd had twenty years of sobriety, but after a very bad breakup a year ago, he began drinking again. He had a plan in place to get sober again, and he's doing it! He's back in AA and therapy, and on Saturday, he picked up his 30 day chip. It's wonderful and amazing to watch, and there is such a difference in him - one that I noticed immediately. He's very focused and committed to his recovery, and I want to do whatever I can to help him. I've been nothing but supportive and encouraging, and I intend to continue that. We are still wonderful friends, emailing back and forth at work, chatting online every night; he's become an important part of my life, and I think I've become the same in his.
I am still interested in him romantically - I'm more impressed with him and his drive and determination every day. However, I do not want to sabotage his recovery at all. He has pulled back from spending one-on-one time together; I've invited him for dinner or to a weekend movie, and he's turned me down. I really don't have a problem with it, because we still communicate so much, and I know it has to do with his recovery. I'm not in a hurry to move the relationship along, his sobriety is most important right now. I do know that AA and recovery programs suggest a moratorium on new relationships during critical recovery periods. I've heard anything from 90 days to a year. I do know that it's an individual thing, and he will go at the pace that he needs to; again, I'm in no hurry, but I'm wondering what the program really does say.
So, in a very long-winded, stream-of-conciousness, roundabout way, that's finally my question. How long might I be waiting? If you've read this far, thank you. If you can answer my question, it's truly appreciated.
Have a blessed day!
lin0606 said
Jul 19, 2005
Hard to tell how long you might need to wait, but expect a good long time. Mostly I have heard to wait a year. I would think that the fact that he went back out after such a long time sober would make it longer, rather than shorter. Unfortunately, with this disease, stories like those of your friend don't often end up too well. I don't want to throw a wet blanket over things, but. please, be careful. Try not to invest too much emotional energy into this man, he is fighting for his life. He needs to invest himself in his recovery. Unlike other diseases, there is not much you can do to help him, and the possiblity that he will drag you down with him is very real.
If you are a person who has trouble with boundaries, with speaking your own mind, with self esteem, if you tend to take on the problems of others as your own, if you have a tendency to 'fix' others, and to throw yourself into the drama of other people's lives, then I would say you are vulnerable to getting yourself inmeshed in something you will not like.
As always at alanon, the focus must be away from the A, and towards ourselves. Take a good long realistic look at yourself, and see what you want from this relationship. Read through some of the old posts here, and get an idea of what our lives are like. Good luck.
Christy said
Jul 19, 2005
Hi ajt,
It's very smart of you to post here and ask questions. May I suggest that you read through some posts and get a up close/involved idea of problems that arise with involvement with an A. I'm not suggesting it so that you will run, but so that you are in this relationship with your eyes wide open.
It would benefit you greatly to attend meetings in your area. Since after 20 yrs. this person has fallen off the wagon, the possibility of it happening again is real. The best thing you can do for yourself is to know this disease, recognize signs and be aware of attempts to suck you in. There's nothing worse then waking up in hell and wondering how you got there.
Since he is withdrawing a bit, it's a perfect time for you to soak in all you can and arm yourself with knowledge. Do yourself a big favor!!
There is a chatroom here that you may be interested in checking out too.
Christy
melanieL said
Jul 19, 2005
Hello, i would say just be very carefully, any relationship with an A is always very heady and intense. His focus right now will be on himself and yours should be on yourself. There isnt really a lot you can do for him. He has to do it all himself. Part of his recovery is learning to be self reliant. Alcoholics have very subtle ways of hooking us in. Life with an alcoholic drunk or sober, in or out of recovery is never going to be easy honey. Take care and I wish you luck
isabela40 said
Jul 19, 2005
Be careful.
Once my husband stopped drinking for an entire year.
When he went back to drinking it was like he was making up for lost time, he drank unbelieveable amounts of alcohol more than twice his past amounts, and every single chance he got. It was like his body could never get satiated after such a long absence from alcohol. He had been craving it for so long that it was like he could never get enough. He would drink until he was passed out on the floor and wet his pants every single day.
He was still sobering up for work and going to work every single day, never missing a day. I am sure they would have had no idea how he lived outside of work.
It was at this time, that he was drinking to the point of a semi-coma each and every day that I truly believe he suffered irreversible brain damage as now he acts like he is drunk even when he is sober.
He still never misses a day of work, but his brain is scrambled. I think they put up with it at work since he is a scientist who is considered a genius and people see him as an "Einstein" type of character. That even though he is a scientific genius that he can't figure out simple things like how a checking account works. SIGH.
The fact that your love in interest went back to drinking after a breakup is not a good thing. Life only gets harder as you get older, old age, sickness, etc. so his relapse now is not a good sign. If you two get together, be prepared for him to drink like a fish everytime you guys have an argument or other difficulty. My husband got a slipped disk and drank so much he could hardly walk to deal with the pain. Alcohol is his "medicine" for EVERYTHING! And why not? It WORKS! At least that is his way of looking at things. He never considers the side effects...
I know that when you are in love, the brain acts the same was as it does with an addict getting a fix. Love is VERY optimistic...I just hope your age and maturity will counteract these effects so you can see clearly.
Isabela
sanddie said
Jul 19, 2005
The true test in ANY recovery or just with how a person feels about themselves in my opinion is shown by how that person handles themselves under stress... That is typically what I watch for mainly in ANY relationship, whether business or personal. I would be hesitant to jump into anything with anyone after seeing how they've relapsed due to a stressful time in their life-- This would indicate to me that they have not yet learned how to sort out their emotions inside and deal with disappointment. The other question I tend to ask myself about this person when being attracted is how they respond if we don't talk for awhile. I feel the most healthy relationship ONLY comes when two people can be away from eachother, yet still be focused on that person being very special in their life. That is ultimately the best test there is to ANY relationship-- friendship or intimate. I guess that comes with my faith and trust in God.... knowing that what is meant to be is all in His control and the plan for my life was predetermined before I was even born.
I would also say though that comparison of this man to another alcoholic would not be fair because there are people that do come through this indefinitely AND nobody ever knows for certain if this person will make a difference for themselves, for the world or for others. However, I do know for certain that history has proven that God uses the most unlikely people as examples of how people can be transformed in their lives so we never know. I suppose that is what always got me into unhealthy relationships because ultimately we never do know what might come of another person and I always see good in someone. However, since realizing this, I've learned something even more important-- it is always good to see good qualities in someone. Time and patience reveals all.
Ultimately, the ONLY concern we should focus on is how to know ourselves and develop our relationship with God because then we can take time to let things work out as He wants them to work out.
Take Care and may God bless you....
-- Edited by sanddie at 18:40, 2005-07-19
-- Edited by sanddie at 18:45, 2005-07-19
ajt62 said
Jul 19, 2005
Thank you all so much for the advice - it's truly appreciated!
I do understand that he needs to focus on himself and his recovery - he is doing that right now with a vengeance. When he was drinking before the long-term sobriety, he was married to a woman who not only enabled him, but was in deep denial about her own alcohol and drug addictions as well, so they fed off of each other. He also had a few things happen at that time, that forced him into recovery, not of his own accord. With this relapse, he simply got tired of drinking again, and had the willingness to stop. He no longer had the disposable income that he had before the relapse, and it was causing depression. He just decided enough was enough, and he started going back to meetings; there was not a catalyst or specific event that forced him into it, but he is totally committed.
Lin - a year is what I've heard more often; so that's not an issue for me. Your comment that he's fighting for his life is so true. I refuse to get in the way of that. As far as him dragging me down with him, trust me - I've got WAY too strong a personality for that! Frankly, though, I do feel honored that he's trusting me enough to let me in right now, but not expecting anything from me. When I congratulated him for hitting the 30 day mark on Saturday, he seemed almost embarrassed - saying it's just one more day.
Isabela - I totally sympathize with you. I've seen that behavior up close, in my late ex-father in law, who was a marine biologist. He died of alcoholism while I was dating my ex-husband. This new guy is also a form of scientist; he's a design engineer, and is brilliant as well. I believe he's very lucky that his brain is still pretty much intact - at work I depend on it!
I do keep up a very active social life that doesn't include him - I always have, so it's not as though I'm sitting at home every night pining away. I even continue to date casually, so I've really kept it more on the healthy side. I have done a lot of therapy myself, so I do look out for number one. But we have such a kinship, so much in common, so much of the same history, and are so comfortable with each other that I see at the very least a very long-term best-friendship. We've discussed our relationship completely and honestly, and we both know that we're going to let it develop naturally, and whatever comes of it, is what it will be.
As far as the headiness - yes - there's been a lot of that. But when we first started the relationship, it was overpowering - I was so attracted to him, that it was difficult to work in the same room with him! It has become much more comfortable now that we know each others' secrets and weaknesses as well as our strengths. It's so nice to see him genuinely smiling and relaxed, and more outgoing and part of the team at work.
Long story short (or just less long? LOL!) I have no blinders on. I know the reality of alcoholism, and intend to continue to live my life as I always have. I know that if for some reason his recovery doesn't "take", that it's his own responsibility, and I'm not the one that can fix it, but I won't abandon him. I won't enable him, but will be here if he needs me - not to rescue him, but to listen.
I have considered going to Al-Anon meetings, but right now things are on a pretty even keel - neither of us seems to have any real issues in the relationship as it stands now. However, if things do change I already have a list of local meetings in my wallet.
That said, I'm glad I found this board this morning. I think I'm going to be a regular lurker and maybe even a semi-regular poster - seems to me that there are a lot of smart people here!!
Thanks again, so much for your thoughts and advice; I will definitely be careful!
lildee said
Jul 19, 2005
Dear ajt62,
Welcome to the site glad you are here asking questions. There is one thing that I find most troubling in your story....
"Over the course of the next few weeks, we had a second and a third date, all of them included alcohol, but not what I considered to excess.
About a month and a half ago, he told me that he's an alcoholic. He's back in AA and therapy, and on Saturday, he picked up his 30 day chip. "
As far as I know anyone that is in AA and getting a chip shouldn't be drinking even if it is socially.
All I can say is go into this relationship with your eyes wide open. Alcoholics are alcoholics for life. They can put the disease into submission with a lot of work but I have seen those with 20+ years relapse. Just be careful and take care of you first.
Love & God Bless
lildee
ajt62 said
Jul 20, 2005
Dear lildee -
Thank you for your concern - I must not have made the timeline very clear. The dates that we had that had involved the alcohol were in late April, early May; near the end of his relapse period, which had lasted nearly a year - incidentally, the relapse was after 20+ years of sobriety. During that 20 years, he was extremely active with the AA organization; not just a member, but a speaker and a sponsor; he went to juvie halls and prisons, and attended seminars and conventions as well. It was after he and I began the relationship that he made the re-commitment to sobriety. It was June 17th that he started back with AA; he's been truly sober since then - there has been no alcohol in 33 days. He did earn the 30 day chip, and is working extremely hard for recovery. I have my eyes wide open, and as I said, have consciously decided to let that take the course that it needs to. We'll see what happens after that!
Hi there - I'm brand new here, and hope I'm in the right place! I have a question about a good friend.
A little background; I'm a 43yo woman, he's a 46yo man with whom I work, pretty closely I should add. I'd been attracted to him, and got up the guts to invite him for a drink one night. He accepted, and we had a 7hour date! We found that we have SO much in common; life experiences, opinions, etc. Talked non-stop about every subject imaginable and had a blast - nothing physical. We both decided that nothing should be rushed, because of the fact that we do work together. Over the course of the next few weeks, we had a second and a third date, all of them included alcohol, but not what I considered to excess.
About a month and a half ago, he told me that he's an alcoholic. While I've never had a problem with addiction, have had family and friends who have, so I know a bit about it from a secondhand perspective - I was not shocked or discouraged when he told me his story. He'd had twenty years of sobriety, but after a very bad breakup a year ago, he began drinking again. He had a plan in place to get sober again, and he's doing it! He's back in AA and therapy, and on Saturday, he picked up his 30 day chip. It's wonderful and amazing to watch, and there is such a difference in him - one that I noticed immediately. He's very focused and committed to his recovery, and I want to do whatever I can to help him. I've been nothing but supportive and encouraging, and I intend to continue that. We are still wonderful friends, emailing back and forth at work, chatting online every night; he's become an important part of my life, and I think I've become the same in his.
I am still interested in him romantically - I'm more impressed with him and his drive and determination every day. However, I do not want to sabotage his recovery at all. He has pulled back from spending one-on-one time together; I've invited him for dinner or to a weekend movie, and he's turned me down. I really don't have a problem with it, because we still communicate so much, and I know it has to do with his recovery. I'm not in a hurry to move the relationship along, his sobriety is most important right now. I do know that AA and recovery programs suggest a moratorium on new relationships during critical recovery periods. I've heard anything from 90 days to a year. I do know that it's an individual thing, and he will go at the pace that he needs to; again, I'm in no hurry, but I'm wondering what the program really does say.
So, in a very long-winded, stream-of-conciousness, roundabout way, that's finally my question. How long might I be waiting? If you've read this far, thank you. If you can answer my question, it's truly appreciated.
Have a blessed day!
Hello, i would say just be very carefully, any relationship with an A is always very heady and intense. His focus right now will be on himself and yours should be on yourself. There isnt really a lot you can do for him. He has to do it all himself. Part of his recovery is learning to be self reliant. Alcoholics have very subtle ways of hooking us in. Life with an alcoholic drunk or sober, in or out of recovery is never going to be easy honey. Take care and I wish you luck
Be careful.
Once my husband stopped drinking for an entire year.
When he went back to drinking it was like he was making up for lost time, he drank unbelieveable amounts of alcohol more than twice his past amounts, and every single chance he got. It was like his body could never get satiated after such a long absence from alcohol. He had been craving it for so long that it was like he could never get enough. He would drink until he was passed out on the floor and wet his pants every single day.
He was still sobering up for work and going to work every single day, never missing a day. I am sure they would have had no idea how he lived outside of work.
It was at this time, that he was drinking to the point of a semi-coma each and every day that I truly believe he suffered irreversible brain damage as now he acts like he is drunk even when he is sober.
He still never misses a day of work, but his brain is scrambled. I think they put up with it at work since he is a scientist who is considered a genius and people see him as an "Einstein" type of character. That even though he is a scientific genius that he can't figure out simple things like how a checking account works. SIGH.
The fact that your love in interest went back to drinking after a breakup is not a good thing. Life only gets harder as you get older, old age, sickness, etc. so his relapse now is not a good sign. If you two get together, be prepared for him to drink like a fish everytime you guys have an argument or other difficulty. My husband got a slipped disk and drank so much he could hardly walk to deal with the pain. Alcohol is his "medicine" for EVERYTHING! And why not? It WORKS! At least that is his way of looking at things. He never considers the side effects...
I know that when you are in love, the brain acts the same was as it does with an addict getting a fix. Love is VERY optimistic...I just hope your age and maturity will counteract these effects so you can see clearly.
Isabela
The true test in ANY recovery or just with how a person feels about themselves in my opinion is shown by how that person handles themselves under stress... That is typically what I watch for mainly in ANY relationship, whether business or personal. I would be hesitant to jump into anything with anyone after seeing how they've relapsed due to a stressful time in their life-- This would indicate to me that they have not yet learned how to sort out their emotions inside and deal with disappointment. The other question I tend to ask myself about this person when being attracted is how they respond if we don't talk for awhile. I feel the most healthy relationship ONLY comes when two people can be away from eachother, yet still be focused on that person being very special in their life. That is ultimately the best test there is to ANY relationship-- friendship or intimate. I guess that comes with my faith and trust in God.... knowing that what is meant to be is all in His control and the plan for my life was predetermined before I was even born.
I would also say though that comparison of this man to another alcoholic would not be fair because there are people that do come through this indefinitely AND nobody ever knows for certain if this person will make a difference for themselves, for the world or for others. However, I do know for certain that history has proven that God uses the most unlikely people as examples of how people can be transformed in their lives so we never know. I suppose that is what always got me into unhealthy relationships because ultimately we never do know what might come of another person and I always see good in someone. However, since realizing this, I've learned something even more important-- it is always good to see good qualities in someone. Time and patience reveals all.
Ultimately, the ONLY concern we should focus on is how to know ourselves and develop our relationship with God because then we can take time to let things work out as He wants them to work out.
Take Care and may God bless you....
-- Edited by sanddie at 18:40, 2005-07-19
-- Edited by sanddie at 18:45, 2005-07-19
Thank you all so much for the advice - it's truly appreciated!
I do understand that he needs to focus on himself and his recovery - he is doing that right now with a vengeance. When he was drinking before the long-term sobriety, he was married to a woman who not only enabled him, but was in deep denial about her own alcohol and drug addictions as well, so they fed off of each other. He also had a few things happen at that time, that forced him into recovery, not of his own accord. With this relapse, he simply got tired of drinking again, and had the willingness to stop. He no longer had the disposable income that he had before the relapse, and it was causing depression. He just decided enough was enough, and he started going back to meetings; there was not a catalyst or specific event that forced him into it, but he is totally committed.
Lin - a year is what I've heard more often; so that's not an issue for me. Your comment that he's fighting for his life is so true. I refuse to get in the way of that. As far as him dragging me down with him, trust me - I've got WAY too strong a personality for that! Frankly, though, I do feel honored that he's trusting me enough to let me in right now, but not expecting anything from me. When I congratulated him for hitting the 30 day mark on Saturday, he seemed almost embarrassed - saying it's just one more day.
Isabela - I totally sympathize with you. I've seen that behavior up close, in my late ex-father in law, who was a marine biologist. He died of alcoholism while I was dating my ex-husband. This new guy is also a form of scientist; he's a design engineer, and is brilliant as well. I believe he's very lucky that his brain is still pretty much intact - at work I depend on it!
I do keep up a very active social life that doesn't include him - I always have, so it's not as though I'm sitting at home every night pining away. I even continue to date casually, so I've really kept it more on the healthy side. I have done a lot of therapy myself, so I do look out for number one. But we have such a kinship, so much in common, so much of the same history, and are so comfortable with each other that I see at the very least a very long-term best-friendship. We've discussed our relationship completely and honestly, and we both know that we're going to let it develop naturally, and whatever comes of it, is what it will be.
As far as the headiness - yes - there's been a lot of that. But when we first started the relationship, it was overpowering - I was so attracted to him, that it was difficult to work in the same room with him! It has become much more comfortable now that we know each others' secrets and weaknesses as well as our strengths. It's so nice to see him genuinely smiling and relaxed, and more outgoing and part of the team at work.
Long story short (or just less long? LOL!) I have no blinders on. I know the reality of alcoholism, and intend to continue to live my life as I always have. I know that if for some reason his recovery doesn't "take", that it's his own responsibility, and I'm not the one that can fix it, but I won't abandon him. I won't enable him, but will be here if he needs me - not to rescue him, but to listen.
I have considered going to Al-Anon meetings, but right now things are on a pretty even keel - neither of us seems to have any real issues in the relationship as it stands now. However, if things do change I already have a list of local meetings in my wallet.
That said, I'm glad I found this board this morning. I think I'm going to be a regular lurker and maybe even a semi-regular poster - seems to me that there are a lot of smart people here!!
Thanks again, so much for your thoughts and advice; I will definitely be careful!
Dear ajt62,
Welcome to the site glad you are here asking questions. There is one thing that I find most troubling in your story....
"Over the course of the next few weeks, we had a second and a third date, all of them included alcohol, but not what I considered to excess.
About a month and a half ago, he told me that he's an alcoholic.
He's back in AA and therapy, and on Saturday, he picked up his 30 day chip. "
As far as I know anyone that is in AA and getting a chip shouldn't be drinking even if it is socially.
All I can say is go into this relationship with your eyes wide open. Alcoholics are alcoholics for life. They can put the disease into submission with a lot of work but I have seen those with 20+ years relapse. Just be careful and take care of you first.
Love & God Bless
lildee
Dear lildee -
Thank you for your concern - I must not have made the timeline very clear. The dates that we had that had involved the alcohol were in late April, early May; near the end of his relapse period, which had lasted nearly a year - incidentally, the relapse was after 20+ years of sobriety. During that 20 years, he was extremely active with the AA organization; not just a member, but a speaker and a sponsor; he went to juvie halls and prisons, and attended seminars and conventions as well. It was after he and I began the relationship that he made the re-commitment to sobriety. It was June 17th that he started back with AA; he's been truly sober since then - there has been no alcohol in 33 days. He did earn the 30 day chip, and is working extremely hard for recovery. I have my eyes wide open, and as I said, have consciously decided to let that take the course that it needs to. We'll see what happens after that!
-- Edited by ajt62 at 02:29, 2005-07-20