well it is late and i just had a talk with my kids. they are 8 and almost 5. we were going to bed and my daughter (8) just bursts out with "i wanna move away from dad, i hate him, and i don't care if i have to switch schools again and i don't care if you have to work and i have to go to daycare a woman like you doesn't need a man like him" pretty strong words coming from an 8 year old. and it makes me sooooo sad that she has this to deal with and my son (5) is like "yeah, he always yells at us and plays mean" My son has more of a connection with his dad b/c he has been around more but the first three years of my daughter's life my a was in prison so i don't think that bond was ever fully formed. i want to hurt myself over the fact that i let their dad be their father. I picked him and they have to live with the consequences. how could i do that? it makes me sooooo pissed. so now i have decided that i will get a job and move to another part of town and not contact him at all. it scares me soooo bad b/c he will go after us with all he's got and it's gonna be drama and i have to do it in secret, blah blah,blah but i need to do something. maybe i'm not ready for it but i don't want them suffering anymore. they need to come first. so tomorrow i start job hunting.Also, do you think my daughter is too young for alateen? i would appreciate any support or wisdom anyone might be able to give.
thanks again
julie
isabela40 said
Jun 29, 2005
Julie,
Whatever you do I STRONGLY urge you to make it "legal" as in a separation or divorce, just trying to quitley go away and hide will simply not work with someone like you desrcibe as your husband.
If you try this, and he finds you he will be doing NOTHING wrong to take the children from their school, playground or whever without telling you. He is their father and has equal rights to custody and control at this point, you have no legal right to keep them from him unless you have some sort of court order.
Worse, if he does this, winds up getting the children from you, he may decide to try and "teach you a lesson" and hide the kids from YOU, again, this would not be wrong as he is also a parent. Of course, you could immediately go before a judge and file for a divorce and explain the sitatuion and eventually the judge would make him produce the children...but do you want to make your children go through this?
Once again I have been through all of this...and I hate to tell you from the other side, but divorce when you have young children simply will not be the solution or end to problems with an addicted spouse. You will continue to be FORCED to deal with him, only in a divorce there usually is a lot of anomosity that will come along with it.
Your children say they don't want to be around their Dad...well...how will they feel to have to go visit him ALONE without you? That will probably happen, be prepared for this...
It is sad, but in an addict the parental bonds are often non-existant, they often see children from the marriage as a useful "tool" to hurt the wife. My former addicted husband actually admitted this to me. He said "thank goodness we had our daughter, as that is eighteen years of permission for me to have the right to be in your life" chilling words...as they were sadly TRUE!
I told the judge all about his abuse to me while pregnant, and his abuse to our daughter as a newborn (he nearly killed her) but he comes from a good family with money and connections and he told the judge that it was in the past and he had changed...all lies, but the judge fell for it and gave him visitation...my lawyer told me that even child molesters get visitation with thier children (although it is court supervised often), that courst hold sacred the rights of parents to have a relationship with their children.
I just want you to be aware from some who has been through all of this that divorce and seperation are not always the solutions they may appear to be IF you have young children.
Just keep in mind that your children have to be your number one priority, only you can decide what is right for you, but keep in mind that you should ensure your childrens safety and security at all times and that will be difficult to do if you just "run away" without full legal control of your children. AND don't forget that your children will wind up with him for visitation ANYWAY, only this time alone, without you there...think about what they will think of that.
You have a lot going in your favor though, since he has spent time in prison it is unlikely he will get custody of the children in a divorce...
Don't take this decision lightly, I knew a woman in college who lost custody of her children to an addicted spouse after the divorce. She had been granted cusody of three children IN the divorce, but soon after her husband remarried and got a good job. He made enough money so that his new wife did not have to work. This woman was working and attending school and the children were in daycare, or in the care of babaysitters the majority of the time. The Ex-husband petioned the judge for custody since he claimed he could provide a more stable environment with his wife caring for the children at home, and being there when they came home from school, and being with their father, rather than a series of babysitters. He also had a large lovely home, and made a lot more money. The ex-wife was living in a small apartment. The judge granted the husband custody as he det ermined that it was in the "best interest of the children", SIGH. That is how things works usually, so be careful, I have met other women in chat who have gotten the shock of their lives to lose cusody to the addict in the divorce.
Just giving you things to think about...whatever you decide perhaps counseling might help your children. It might help their stress level AND provide documentation of the stress they live with that might help you in a divorce or custody fight.
Isabela
Stephanie said
Jun 29, 2005
I do this work every day, and though the laws vary from state to state I want to place a large exclamation point on what Isabela said. What I would do FIRST and you can do this in one day, is get a protective order. When you have a place to go (and you can look at your local women's shelter for help) get a protective order for both you and your kids. Even if you haven't been physically hurt you have all obviously been emotionally abused.
The best thing you can do is get some local support and get it TODAY. You need someone to guide you through the services available to you and act as a clear headed guide. When we are in the midst of these problems there is the tendancy to be impulsive without knowing what we can do and the best way to do it.
Best of luck to you and I wish you well in your path toward serenity.
Stephanie
bcanuck said
Jun 29, 2005
Hi Julie,
This is quite a post. My daughter often says to me "why don't you just get rid of him!!!". My reasoning is all in Isabela's reply - fear and the safety of our children. With my hubby being a "functioning" alcoholic, i.e. good job, no impaired convictions, no lost time from work, and the fact tht he does most of his drinking at home "out of sight", we would wind up in a situation of shared custody...and he would use them as a tool against me. Of this I am certain, so for now the children are safer with the family as a unit. It sucks big time, but it is reality. I know where my children are 24/7...and I can control the situation for the most part. I can keep them from climbing into a vehicle with him when he has been drinking, I can intervene when he starts acting like an idiot to them (which is often).
I often don't think I have the courage to leave, but right now I think I"m using up all my courage just staying and protecting them. My youngest is almost 11 now, and I can see a light at the end of the tunnel in a few years, when they're of an age where they can choose where they go and when. My guess right now is my daughter will completely disown her father.
Having said that, I have drawn a "line in the sand" so to speak in my head, that is if he ever physically hurts anybody, either within the family or on the road..the gloves come off and the situation will change immediately.
Good luck to you and your children. I'm right there with you.
As for Alateen, 9 is perhaps a little young, but you can try helping her with your al-anon tools whenever the subject comes up. I find my 13 year old daughter is not be ready for Alateen just yet, but when I think she is I will direct her there.
Take care,
Bonnie
lin0606 said
Jun 29, 2005
Hard decisions, indeed. I bet there is local help around, some kind of family services office where there are people who know the local laws and what resources are available to you. This is a time to use whatever help is out there for you - its always best to have as much knowledge as possible.
As for alateen - nine may be young for the actual meetings, but I bet she would like some of the alateen literature. There is some stuff in comic book format, and some small books, about fifteen pages each with titles like "Alateen Talks Back on Acceptance", or Serenity, or Detachment, etc. These are full of short shares from kids about the topic.
Belongtome said
Jun 29, 2005
Hi Julie...my heart goes out to you today.
When my children were growing up, I left, I came back, I left, I came back. Now that they are grown, I really feel they would have been better off without an A in the home, than they were going through his emotional abuse. They're all fine, but I live with the guilt all the time that I was responsible and did not permanently remove them from the situation.
However, Isabella's post offers so much information to you.
Only you can make this decision, and I will pray that you make the right one for you and yours. You are also the only one capable of knowing what your A is capable of when enraged. Anytime I left, I had to hide....several times at the Center for Domestic Violence. Then he became all sweet til I came home, and then the honeymoon, and then the same old dance, time, after time.
hey guys
well it is late and i just had a talk with my kids. they are 8 and almost 5. we were going to bed and my daughter (8) just bursts out with "i wanna move away from dad, i hate him, and i don't care if i have to switch schools again and i don't care if you have to work and i have to go to daycare a woman like you doesn't need a man like him" pretty strong words coming from an 8 year old. and it makes me sooooo sad that she has this to deal with and my son (5) is like "yeah, he always yells at us and plays mean" My son has more of a connection with his dad b/c he has been around more but the first three years of my daughter's life my a was in prison so i don't think that bond was ever fully formed. i want to hurt myself over the fact that i let their dad be their father. I picked him and they have to live with the consequences. how could i do that? it makes me sooooo pissed. so now i have decided that i will get a job and move to another part of town and not contact him at all. it scares me soooo bad b/c he will go after us with all he's got and it's gonna be drama and i have to do it in secret, blah blah,blah but i need to do something. maybe i'm not ready for it but i don't want them suffering anymore. they need to come first. so tomorrow i start job hunting.Also, do you think my daughter is too young for alateen? i would appreciate any support or wisdom anyone might be able to give.
thanks again
julie
Julie,
Whatever you do I STRONGLY urge you to make it "legal" as in a separation or divorce, just trying to quitley go away and hide will simply not work with someone like you desrcibe as your husband.
If you try this, and he finds you he will be doing NOTHING wrong to take the children from their school, playground or whever without telling you. He is their father and has equal rights to custody and control at this point, you have no legal right to keep them from him unless you have some sort of court order.
Worse, if he does this, winds up getting the children from you, he may decide to try and "teach you a lesson" and hide the kids from YOU, again, this would not be wrong as he is also a parent. Of course, you could immediately go before a judge and file for a divorce and explain the sitatuion and eventually the judge would make him produce the children...but do you want to make your children go through this?
Once again I have been through all of this...and I hate to tell you from the other side, but divorce when you have young children simply will not be the solution or end to problems with an addicted spouse. You will continue to be FORCED to deal with him, only in a divorce there usually is a lot of anomosity that will come along with it.
Your children say they don't want to be around their Dad...well...how will they feel to have to go visit him ALONE without you? That will probably happen, be prepared for this...
It is sad, but in an addict the parental bonds are often non-existant, they often see children from the marriage as a useful "tool" to hurt the wife. My former addicted husband actually admitted this to me. He said "thank goodness we had our daughter, as that is eighteen years of permission for me to have the right to be in your life" chilling words...as they were sadly TRUE!
I told the judge all about his abuse to me while pregnant, and his abuse to our daughter as a newborn (he nearly killed her) but he comes from a good family with money and connections and he told the judge that it was in the past and he had changed...all lies, but the judge fell for it and gave him visitation...my lawyer told me that even child molesters get visitation with thier children (although it is court supervised often), that courst hold sacred the rights of parents to have a relationship with their children.
I just want you to be aware from some who has been through all of this that divorce and seperation are not always the solutions they may appear to be IF you have young children.
Just keep in mind that your children have to be your number one priority, only you can decide what is right for you, but keep in mind that you should ensure your childrens safety and security at all times and that will be difficult to do if you just "run away" without full legal control of your children. AND don't forget that your children will wind up with him for visitation ANYWAY, only this time alone, without you there...think about what they will think of that.
You have a lot going in your favor though, since he has spent time in prison it is unlikely he will get custody of the children in a divorce...
Don't take this decision lightly, I knew a woman in college who lost custody of her children to an addicted spouse after the divorce. She had been granted cusody of three children IN the divorce, but soon after her husband remarried and got a good job. He made enough money so that his new wife did not have to work. This woman was working and attending school and the children were in daycare, or in the care of babaysitters the majority of the time. The Ex-husband petioned the judge for custody since he claimed he could provide a more stable environment with his wife caring for the children at home, and being there when they came home from school, and being with their father, rather than a series of babysitters. He also had a large lovely home, and made a lot more money. The ex-wife was living in a small apartment. The judge granted the husband custody as he det ermined that it was in the "best interest of the children", SIGH. That is how things works usually, so be careful, I have met other women in chat who have gotten the shock of their lives to lose cusody to the addict in the divorce.
Just giving you things to think about...whatever you decide perhaps counseling might help your children. It might help their stress level AND provide documentation of the stress they live with that might help you in a divorce or custody fight.
Isabela
I do this work every day, and though the laws vary from state to state I want to place a large exclamation point on what Isabela said. What I would do FIRST and you can do this in one day, is get a protective order. When you have a place to go (and you can look at your local women's shelter for help) get a protective order for both you and your kids. Even if you haven't been physically hurt you have all obviously been emotionally abused.
The best thing you can do is get some local support and get it TODAY. You need someone to guide you through the services available to you and act as a clear headed guide. When we are in the midst of these problems there is the tendancy to be impulsive without knowing what we can do and the best way to do it.
Best of luck to you and I wish you well in your path toward serenity.
Stephanie
Hi Julie,
This is quite a post. My daughter often says to me "why don't you just get rid of him!!!". My reasoning is all in Isabela's reply - fear and the safety of our children. With my hubby being a "functioning" alcoholic, i.e. good job, no impaired convictions, no lost time from work, and the fact tht he does most of his drinking at home "out of sight", we would wind up in a situation of shared custody...and he would use them as a tool against me. Of this I am certain, so for now the children are safer with the family as a unit. It sucks big time, but it is reality. I know where my children are 24/7...and I can control the situation for the most part. I can keep them from climbing into a vehicle with him when he has been drinking, I can intervene when he starts acting like an idiot to them (which is often).
I often don't think I have the courage to leave, but right now I think I"m using up all my courage just staying and protecting them. My youngest is almost 11 now, and I can see a light at the end of the tunnel in a few years, when they're of an age where they can choose where they go and when. My guess right now is my daughter will completely disown her father.
Having said that, I have drawn a "line in the sand" so to speak in my head, that is if he ever physically hurts anybody, either within the family or on the road..the gloves come off and the situation will change immediately.
Good luck to you and your children. I'm right there with you.
As for Alateen, 9 is perhaps a little young, but you can try helping her with your al-anon tools whenever the subject comes up. I find my 13 year old daughter is not be ready for Alateen just yet, but when I think she is I will direct her there.
Take care,
Bonnie
Hi Julie...my heart goes out to you today.
When my children were growing up, I left, I came back, I left, I came back. Now that they are grown, I really feel they would have been better off without an A in the home, than they were going through his emotional abuse. They're all fine, but I live with the guilt all the time that I was responsible and did not permanently remove them from the situation.
However, Isabella's post offers so much information to you.
Only you can make this decision, and I will pray that you make the right one for you and yours. You are also the only one capable of knowing what your A is capable of when enraged. Anytime I left, I had to hide....several times at the Center for Domestic Violence. Then he became all sweet til I came home, and then the honeymoon, and then the same old dance, time, after time.
(((((((Julie))))))) love, G