I have been doing so much thinking and crying and thinking some more. I have been around all of this for so long. I have read everything there is to read. I have reread and said the prayers and slogans to myself so often. I have worked the steps, honestly and to the best of my ability alone and with a sponsor. I have yet to get to the end, I keep starting over, and I can accept that. I know it is a lifelong commitment to be well and to be happy.

My head knows all of this. I could probably write several books(if I was talented enough) on alcoholism as I have researched it more than anything in my life. Maybe thats the problem, I need to know. I need the facts, I can't just accept that something is I have to know why.

When I heard my husband had liver problems, my fingers where burning up the keyboard looking for answers. I looked in medical books as well. I spoke to several Dr's and a nurse and a counselor at a detox, looking for answers. Yet when I showed my husband my research and voiced my concerns, not just about his drinking, but for his very life. He threw it in the trash and told me his Mother said it is no big deal, and continued to drink.

Last night my youngest daughter graduated from Middle school. My husband called here in the afternoon and asked what time the ceremony was. He said his Mother said he belonged there. It was 2 in the afternoon, he had called out of work and was drunk already. I told him that he already knew that he was not allowed at the graduation drinking and from his parents house. That when he chose not to go to the detox, he was choosing not to be a part of this family.

He started ranting and raving and carrying on, calling me filthy names, so I hung up on him. He called back about an hour later and our daughter answered the phone. He told her that he wanted to come to the graduation and that I said he couldn't. Well she got angry at him and told him that she did want him there, but he had broken too many promises, that he was suppsoed to be getting help then comming home but that he broke that promise as well and let his parents talk him out of it. She told him she hates them and that he is not welcomed there drunk, or any other way as long as he lives with them.

Well needless to say he got mad and started screaming at her. He called her an ungrateful little bitch and a lot of other horrible things. My daughter was in tears and I grabbed the phone and hung it up. She cried most of the night and went through the ceremony sad and upset, then came home and cried some more.

He ruined her night among other things. What kind of a monster would do that to any 14 year old child let alone the daughter he insists he loves? How can someone who can be so loving get so horrible? Okay it is a disease, I know that, but what he has done cannot be justified away as just sick.

Okay when a little child does something we can say they ,ight not know any better, but this is a grown man. If we just explain it away as part of the disease aren't we excusing the situation? Okay we are supposed to detach with love, but how do children detach from their father who is turning into a raving lunatic?

How does a Grandmother try and send someone who is drunk to a childs ceremony?

His health is in trouble, his job is on the rocks, he is out of his home, his children hate their Grandparents and one of his daughters is confused and almost sick about the way he has treated her. Yet he thinks his drinking hurts no one but himself.

He told my neighbor the other night that he does not care if he dies. He told her he cannot stop drinking and that it was unfair of anyone to expect him to. He said he loves it, she say he screamed it while he was crying and banging on his car. She asked him what about your wife and children, and she said he got angry and said don't dare tell him that he doesn't love any of us, but that if he can't drink nothing else matters, that it is not worth being alive.

None of this makes sense to me. It goes beyond horrible and beyond sick.

I know I am ranting now, and I know I am looking for answers where none exist, where none can becasue you can't explain away insanity.

He is insane. He is more insane and incapable of sound judgement than a person in a asylum, yet he walks around. we can declare an alshymers patient incompetent, but we can do nothing about an alcoholic, at least not in New Jersey. He can make decisions about our family legally, he can choose his own medical treatment. I don't understand, maybe I never will. But I am angry.

                      Love Jeannie

-- Edited by Jeannie at 22:14, 2005-06-18

Dear Jeannie, I am so sorry for what you are going through. The only thing that went through my mind as I read your post is...."I wish I could give you and your daughter a hug." You don't deserve this and neither do your children. All I can do is send you prayers of strength for you and your children to get through this and *HUGS* It's not much, but it's all I have..... ~arwyn

Jeannie we all go thru this. I know you know!! But sometimes I believe our emotions cloud us up. You know how ya hear I lost touch with reality? I believe that is it. We want our loved one so badly. In this case your mate. Of course sometimes it hits you in the heart and you almost cannot stand it. Killed me to read how awful his disease was to your daughter. I mean how powerful and horrible is a disease that would allow a father to speak to her that way? But like you I get tired of, "it is the disease." Ok fine so it is. But I am mad, hurt, tore' up, lonely. Just becuz it is a disease Jeannie, does not mean we cannot hate it., get so frigging tired of it. Want to know IS HE CURED YET????lol You will feel better and stronger after each time this happens. You will move further and further away from him and his disease. You are doing that now. You chose to try, and you have. You may find you want to back off now and let it go for a bit. Give you guys time to rest time for you to think about your kids, allow your kids to heal and grow. Get the focus off the disease and back on you where it belongs. Take the kids out for ice cream cones, go to the zoo, go on a picnic. Get out of the hole honey Connect with earth again. The more we start looking at stars again, going for walks in pretty places, playing games with each other, the further away we get from the clutches of the disease. Anyway I want you to go have FUN please.... love to you and your precious kids, debilyn

Jeannie,

I'm so sorry he ruined your daughters night. How selfish of him. I fully understand the "it's a disease" thing too but being a jerk is being a jerk. Drunk or sober. Jeannie, I have only been on the site for a short while but I have read many of your posts and it seems to me you have done absolutely everything you can for him and given him the benifit of the dought over and over. You have every right to feel everything you are feeling.

Reading your post I find myself not only alittle sad for you and your kids but alittle angry too. Your children have had to learn some hard lessons at an early age due to their father's drinking and his insane parents.

The last thing I thought reading your post was, how lucky they are to have you as a Mom. You are doing evrything you can to help them and yourself make sence of all that has happened through the years. You have chosen not to hide your head in the sand but to actively search out real solutions for the obstacles your family has incountered. You are an understanding ear for your childeren to talk with, warm arms to give a loving and safe hug, and a bright smile to laugh and have fun with.

They may not have him, but how luck they are to have you! They will come through shinning because of you!

Agatha

 

Jeannie,

I can feel your pain throught the computer and I am so sorry that you are suffering.  Know you have done all that you can for that man and he needs to do it for himself only. 

I too have that questions---how can he say he loves us when he is doing "such and such?"

It's father's day today---I have a 3 and 1 year old and their dad is drinking himself to death in CA.  We've not heard from him since Fri and he keeps saying he's going to rehab.  I cry sometimes, I get scared sometimes, I am furious sometimes and I wish the future was certain that he would get into recovery or stay an active A.  I cannot believe this is the person I married.  I guess we all feel that way.  I cannot believe this is the person who fathered my children.  He has spiraled down so badly, so quickly, I didn't see it coming.  I am still shocked by all of this.

Jeannie, I love in South Jersey.  Do you mind me asking where in Jersey you live?  You can email me privately if you want. 

mom to 2

I can feel your anger and desperation through you post.  I got angry with my A just reading your post.  I too, get frustrated because it seems if they are not held accountable for their actions because of their disease.  Please, be strong.  The best gift you can give your babies is to show them by example the right path to take.

Hi Jeannie

I am vert very sorry for the chaos in your families life and the pain inflicted on your daughter.

As an adult I have been inflicted with such pain, as a child it must be even more difficult to process.

He is insane. He is more insane and incapable of sound judgement than a person in a asylum, yet he walks around. we can declare an alshymers patient incompetent, but we can do nothing about an alcoholic, at least not in New Jersey. He can make decisions about our family legally, he can choose his own medical treatment. I don't understand, maybe I never will. But I am angry.

 

This hits home. My alcoholic husband is insane too from drinking and I too have been unable to find a law in New jersey to get him committed.

 

Take care Jeannie..

Megan,

I asked the counselor and an attorney about the commitment laws here in NJ. The law does not allow for commitment of an alcoholic here, though in other states it does. Treatment is purely on a voluntary basis. I have questioned them about what about based on insanity or being a danger to ones self and others around them. They said that if it is pursued that way, as soon as the alcohol abuse is brought up, it would be thrown out.

I have been told by the experts that there is no way to committ an alcoholic in state of New Jersey, unless they attempt suicide. Then I said well isn't drinking with a liver disease the same as attempted suicide or for that fact leaving alcoholism untreated is in fact attempted suicide. I was told that is splitting hairs, that civil rights have made that the same as refusing extreme treatment. That a person has a right to decisions concerning their own body.

I also asked about incompetency, that if he is no longer able to make ratiuonal decisions on his own, couldn't someone step in. They said that would not be allowed id alcohol is involved as a precedent would be set opening the whole commitment issue and the government of the state does not want to allow it.

There is no way around it that I have been able to find.

                        Love Jeannie

Thank-you so much for the information.

I had done research online and asked my older sister (recent law school graduate) and her partner (Doctor) and had hit a brick wall too.

I appreciate learning the results of your investigation, even though it is disheartening

Love,

megan

Dear Jeannie,

I can think of no greater hell than to watch someone I love spiralling down and down and down , denying his disease all of the way when I know that help could be had if he would ask for it.

Alcoholism is a terrible disease.  That is not an excuse for his behavior.  It is the reason why he behaves the way he does.  And his behavior is completely and totally unacceptable to both you and your daughter.  But saying that isn't going to change him or change the way he spoke to his daughter or to you.

When I feel like I have done it all and there is nothing else I can do, I pray. Pray that this sad, diseased man will someday find happiness and peace in his life.  And I ask God to help me remember that I am powerless over alcohol and that he can restore me to sanity if I ask him to.  And I ask God in my prayer to help me let go.

My heart goes out to you.

Love and peace in the program,

Joan

hi Jeannie - big hugs to you and your daughter; I am sorry this happened to her on her big day. But she should still be very proud, as should you :)

I have to say Jeannie, I appreciate your post.  You said something that I have wanted to say; but as a newbie, I did not want to step on the "Programs" toes:  Calling this a disease and wrting their behaviour off to the disease, is...unacceptable to me.  I simply can not shrug my shoulders and say "well...he is sick.."  "its the disease" 

Sorry but my bullsh!t meter goes haywire. 

There is STILL some accountability, there is still atonement, there is still remorse to be had.  And by dismissing their actions with "it's a disease", frankly gives them clearance to forego accountability, atonement and remorse. 

When I was facilitating something in the marraige that was harmful and hurtful to my husband and the marriage...I got called on it.  And I held the accountability; I owned up to it, I was remorseful, I worked to atone for it...I busted my ass to correct it - therapy and behavioral changes.

And now: he has brought something into the marriage that is harmful and hurtful and... what?  We dismiss it as "a disease"??? that's it?!?!?  OH.  My marriage is strained and stressed...and ..he is a VICTIM of a disease???? 

 

someone help me get around this...please.  I do not get it.  It makes no sense.

 

-- Edited by GirlSkates at 13:55, 2005-06-20

Thre's an analogy that I use sometimes - it's not a perfectly exact one, so bear with me. If you were caring for someone who had the stomach flu, and he vomited all over you, you would not be angry with that person, nor would you hate him for getting you all messy. However, you would not stand in front of him in your best clothes, at least not after the first time. You would do what you could to help him, while taking care to protect yourself from the unpleasant consequences of his disease. You would stand to the side, you would wear old clothes or an apron, and, if he was well enough after vomiting, you would have him clean it up rather than you. Our acceptance of the fact that alcoholism is a disease is helpful to us, it is not a 'get out of jail free' card for the alcoholic. If we understand that the horrible behaviour is the sympton of a disease, we can better make sense of it. We can also stop hating and blaming the A. When I joined alanon, and saw how all my private and shameful secrets were told by others in my situation - over and over again - I really came to forgive my husband. It was so clear that he was not the monster I had come to think of him as, but he was sick. So many others had exactly the same symptoms, it was not just him, being a bad person, and me, being a victim. This does not mean that we have to accept the unacceptable. This does not mean that the A does not have to take the consequences of his behaviour, up to and including losing his family, if necessary. It just means that we can understand, all the while protecting ourselves from that (both analogous, and, somtimes, all too literal) vomit.