Just thinking today. I talked to the kids about what they want, and they basically told me it is my decision. They told me they love him and wish he would sober up. They said that they would prefer he wasn't with his parents becasue it is hard to even call him, as they answer the phone, and none of them want to talk to his parents. (The older ones).
I have spent some time with him this weekend, trying to help myself make a decision. I am so confused, and his thinking is so distorted. I tried reminding him that the reason we started counseling was to get an outside opinion of what we should do. He said he knows, and he has been listening. I said hte counselor said you need rehab, and you need to cut back the ties to your parents. He said I know and I said yet you refuse are still drinking and Mommy and Daddy are still running the show. He got angry and said when are you going to start anger management like I want? I told him the counselor doesn't believe it is necessary, that I don't need it. He then said well my parents and I think you do.
I told him, we where going to go by the counselors suggestions, not his and his parents.
He asked me if I really want him in rehab. I told him I want you sober and I want you home. He said he will not jeapordize his job with inpatient, but he said we can talk to the counselor this week about helping get him into an IOP program. He has agreed to get a second job, so we he doesn't have to keep looking to his parents for financial help.
He got me so angry, he kept telling me that his parents keep telling him I want a divorce. They tell him I want to take everything from him, and the idiot listens to them.
I told him if I wanted a divorce I promise you, htat you would be the first one to know. I said that I do not tell his parents anything and that they do not know anything about me after all these years, becase they have never bothered to try and get to know me, just to lie and try and come between us.
I told him that I love him that the kids love him and that no matter what he believes that the kids and I are the ones who are truly on his side.
I have made a decision, the kids are coming with me to counseling this Wednesday and he is going to hear what we all have to say. (I called the counselor this morning and he said it is okay and the kids want to do it). He is going to hear that we want him home that we are not against him and that we are not the enemy.
If he goes into the IOP I will allow him to come home. If a person is only hearing negative lies, they are going to believe them. His parents are the only ones who are talking and they are doing it while he is drinking.
There is more love and respect within the walls of this house than anywhere else I can think of. He needs to see and hear it. what him and I have created here is priceless. I know he is sick, but I also know that this house is filled with goodness and honesty and noise and good chaos. I know that as a family we have learned that when we work together, we can accomplish anything. I am willing to take a second job if he goes into treatment, as we will need money for the co-pays and he cannot do a 5 day IOP and work two jobs. My two older kids want to help as well by contributing from part time jobs, and my younger daughter has offered to babysit while I work and he goes to group. If he can't see us reaching out and puling together, and if he still chooses to believe his parents then there is nothing I can do. It will not be an intervention, we will not speak of what his drinking has done to any of us, he has heard that all before. It will just be that we love him, we want him home, we want him to get the help he needs and we want to set the record straight on the lies coming from his parents. I count my blessings everyday for the wonder and joy and plain goodness of my children. Well they are his children as well, and I think he needs to be reminded of how good they are and how much we all love him. I don't believe it is blackmail, we are not threatening to take anything away from him, just reminding him of what he is missing out on.
I know I am grasping at straws. I know blood is thicker than water and his parents are his blood, but so are these children, they are the best part of both of us, and the best part of his parents as well. His parents keep pushing that they are his family, and should come before the kids and I. Well, we are going to show him his family and what family can accomplish when they work together.
We are going to take a chance, we are going to fight hate, deception and manipulation with love and honesty.
If that does not work then we all will know that we have truly done everything possible and we move on, as a family.
holly123 said
Jun 6, 2005
Jeannie,
I can only tell you what I would do,
First: You don't have to do anything but Tuesday, you can take as long as you need to decided. I agree that the counselor definetly laid out your choices and now you know them. If that counselor is putting a time limit on your decision and your not ready to make it then guess what there are other counselors. So don't put a time limit on your decision, it is a very tough one.
I got to tell you I agree with the counselor and I was told the same thing before my a totally lost control and got a DWI. I wasn't ready when I was told I needed to set limits but it was possible to set these limits and live with him. My situation was different in the way that he hadn't moved out. But I decided if he was going to stay there wouldn't be anymore drinking at my home (atleast not around myself or my kids). He has pretty much respected that, I think because it impressed him that I stood up to him and his alcohol.
Anyway, if you are confused you may not be ready to act, it is going to time for you to weigh it out and I'm sure the counselor will understand that and when and if you are ready will be there when that day comes.
If may be time to place a little more distance between you and your a, giving him an ulitmatum or just plan getting more time between phone conversations and visits. Maybe he needs to know that he won't have the best of both worlds anymore and that you have limits. It may help for him to think you are moving on with your life and it will definitely help you to find out if you even want to.
Honestly, If I was in you situation I would ask myself if maybe I am also abusing the seperation by using it to only have to deal with the good parts so to speak and then have someone to blame for the bad parts. I spent a lot of my marriage blaming my inlaws for messing up my a. They didn't love him enough, they didn't do enough with or for him, they turned their backs on him in a time they should have been agressively helping him through. Now I know that they did what they though was right and that sometimes they made the wrong choices but as a parent now i know how selfish and controlling I am with my kids, wanting the best for them and sometimes forgeting to let them think for themselves. Trying to solve their problems and enabling them (not exactly meaning to) to do things that I shouldn't. Remember that atleast for me there was a time I would buy my a beer to keep the peace and the try and get times where he was happy and fun to be around. Now I realize he doesn't need the beer for that, and he is more fun when he is free from that crutch and can think and speak intellegently and not have to repeat myself a million times or babysit him.
Anyway I guess what I am getting at is his parents may never realize what they are doing because they are his parents and want to fix everything and keep him happy.
As far as you go you need to just do what keeps you sane and as happy as possible. Take your time and don't rush into anything. It may be the best thing you ever do by cutting him loose or bringing him home but you can't make yourself sick wonder what you should do. I believe your hp will make it clear to you what needs to be done and when you do it you will feel content with your choice.
Good Luck, keep coming back and working your program.
Love Ya
Holly
Jeannie,
The above was my reply to your previous message and I just wanted to add that it sounds like your hp is at work and that you are on the right track. Only you know what you can do but I do believe that it is best for the a to hear what his kids are thinking right from their mouth. So keep up the good work and listen to your hp. Your doing great.
We are all here for you
Jolert said
Jun 6, 2005
Hi Jeannie,
Sometimes it is so easy to look at hard decisions we have to make and avoid them by wishing it away or avoiding them. It sounds like you are doing a great job of thinking of your options and looking inside to see what you are comfortable with. Reading about your kid's thoughts and willingness to pull together is amazing and a testament to you and the example you have shown them. They sound like compassionate, self respecting, good people. Those traits will help them throughout their entire lives. You all will be able to pull together and be fine no matter what life brings. Take care, sending you warm fuzzy thoughts
Jenny
Jeannie said
Jun 6, 2005
Hi Holly,
Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it.
As for my in-laws, for many years I have gone back and forth about wethre I am wrong about them. I do know that I was right about them from the beginning.
They made him promise when he was 17 that he would never get married have children or leave them. They bought a funeral plot for the three of them with him between them when we first began dating. They refered to our son as the unfortunate incident while I was pregnant and right after he was born.
They want everything in their name, they have a very large life insurance policy on him with themselves as the beneficiaries and his nieces and nephews as the back up instead of his children.
His Mother cancelled the minister the day before our wedding pretending to be me. They do enable him and treat him like a child and the price is that they expect to always be first in his life. His Mother tells me repeatedly that they are his family, I am just his wife.
She says in the 10 commandments the bible says to put your parents first. (Honor thy Mother and Father). I told her actually the bible says "a man should leave his Mother and cleave only unto his wife". She says not in her bible.
My in-laws use alcohol and money to control and manipulate my husband. They disllike me becasue I will not cater to them, listen to their opinions and let them tell me how to raise my children. His mother continuously says I am lazy, stupid, unnattractive and from the wrong side of the tracks as she puts it. She rips apart any show of affection we give each oter, walks into my home uninvited and will even bang on the bedroom door if it is closed. When I nursed my children, she tried to make me feel uncomfortable and cheap for doing it, because it was not her way. I told her if she did not like it to leave, it is the natural way to feed my babies and my choice. She then kept tormenting my husband about when was he going to make me start feeding them formula.
The one thing I am sure of and anyone that has spent enough time around them to see her take off the phoney mask, is that some people are good and some are cruel and rotten. My in-laws are truly horrible people. I have tried too many times to give them the benefit of the doubt, only to have them turn it on me.
Love Jeannie
megan said
Jun 6, 2005
(((Jeanne)))
This is a very difficult decision for you Jeanne.
I admire your courage in letting an active A back into your home.
Perhaps the time is right for him to find sobriety.
You certainly have covered the angles from what I can see
You and your family are in my prayers
holly123 said
Jun 6, 2005
Wow,
LOL ok you win, that is very strange. His parents do have some very warped views, I guess the only reason I was saying that was with my experience with my in-laws. I have to say that they are very strange.
Anyway,
I think you are doing great, even better than you may think, I know that what ever you decide you will know it is right because you are happier in the end. It may not be easier to take him back but if you choose that you may find out it can work or you may find that it was a big mistake and it will help you to move on and get into a healthier situation for you and your kids. Whatever the outcome, keep coming back and keep in touch with your hp, that is really where the help is.
Love Ya
Holly
wallsal55 said
Jun 6, 2005
Hi, Jeannie! Have followed your posts a long time over time. I believe you are on the right track. It's OK to trust yourself here. What relief to have the children there, too and to know you can move forward/on knowing that you did everything you could possibly do. Remember, the three C's--we didn't cause this disease, we cannot cure it, and we cannot control it.
TLC2 said
Jun 7, 2005
Wow Jeannie, you and your children are truly awesome! I hope he sees that and will 'smarten up!' Those parents of his are something else!! I don't know how you have stood it all those years!! Best of luck to ya,am praying for you all, Big Time!! Love, TLC
honeybunnydog said
Jun 7, 2005
Jeannie
Wow!, I am so sorry that his parents are that way. It is hard enough to live with the A and to have his parents on top of it .... well it sucks. I would not take her calls, and I would lay the line down and tell her that enough is enough, that they are not welcome in your home until they stop bad mouthing you and contributing to your A's problem. Your kids are great. My sons are the same way, especially my oldest who just got his first job and is wants to give me money to help around the house because of my A's losing his job and the one he has now does not pay even half of what he used to get. Just hug your kids, and keep going forward.. Just remember to take care of you and the kids first. The A needs to do some major growing up and learn that he can't have his cake and eat it too!
Hi,
Just thinking today. I talked to the kids about what they want, and they basically told me it is my decision. They told me they love him and wish he would sober up. They said that they would prefer he wasn't with his parents becasue it is hard to even call him, as they answer the phone, and none of them want to talk to his parents. (The older ones).
I have spent some time with him this weekend, trying to help myself make a decision. I am so confused, and his thinking is so distorted. I tried reminding him that the reason we started counseling was to get an outside opinion of what we should do. He said he knows, and he has been listening. I said hte counselor said you need rehab, and you need to cut back the ties to your parents. He said I know and I said yet you refuse are still drinking and Mommy and Daddy are still running the show. He got angry and said when are you going to start anger management like I want? I told him the counselor doesn't believe it is necessary, that I don't need it. He then said well my parents and I think you do.
I told him, we where going to go by the counselors suggestions, not his and his parents.
He asked me if I really want him in rehab. I told him I want you sober and I want you home. He said he will not jeapordize his job with inpatient, but he said we can talk to the counselor this week about helping get him into an IOP program. He has agreed to get a second job, so we he doesn't have to keep looking to his parents for financial help.
He got me so angry, he kept telling me that his parents keep telling him I want a divorce. They tell him I want to take everything from him, and the idiot listens to them.
I told him if I wanted a divorce I promise you, htat you would be the first one to know. I said that I do not tell his parents anything and that they do not know anything about me after all these years, becase they have never bothered to try and get to know me, just to lie and try and come between us.
I told him that I love him that the kids love him and that no matter what he believes that the kids and I are the ones who are truly on his side.
I have made a decision, the kids are coming with me to counseling this Wednesday and he is going to hear what we all have to say. (I called the counselor this morning and he said it is okay and the kids want to do it). He is going to hear that we want him home that we are not against him and that we are not the enemy.
If he goes into the IOP I will allow him to come home. If a person is only hearing negative lies, they are going to believe them. His parents are the only ones who are talking and they are doing it while he is drinking.
There is more love and respect within the walls of this house than anywhere else I can think of. He needs to see and hear it. what him and I have created here is priceless. I know he is sick, but I also know that this house is filled with goodness and honesty and noise and good chaos. I know that as a family we have learned that when we work together, we can accomplish anything. I am willing to take a second job if he goes into treatment, as we will need money for the co-pays and he cannot do a 5 day IOP and work two jobs. My two older kids want to help as well by contributing from part time jobs, and my younger daughter has offered to babysit while I work and he goes to group. If he can't see us reaching out and puling together, and if he still chooses to believe his parents then there is nothing I can do. It will not be an intervention, we will not speak of what his drinking has done to any of us, he has heard that all before. It will just be that we love him, we want him home, we want him to get the help he needs and we want to set the record straight on the lies coming from his parents. I count my blessings everyday for the wonder and joy and plain goodness of my children. Well they are his children as well, and I think he needs to be reminded of how good they are and how much we all love him. I don't believe it is blackmail, we are not threatening to take anything away from him, just reminding him of what he is missing out on.
I know I am grasping at straws. I know blood is thicker than water and his parents are his blood, but so are these children, they are the best part of both of us, and the best part of his parents as well. His parents keep pushing that they are his family, and should come before the kids and I. Well, we are going to show him his family and what family can accomplish when they work together.
We are going to take a chance, we are going to fight hate, deception and manipulation with love and honesty.
If that does not work then we all will know that we have truly done everything possible and we move on, as a family.
Jeannie,
I can only tell you what I would do,
First: You don't have to do anything but Tuesday, you can take as long as you need to decided. I agree that the counselor definetly laid out your choices and now you know them. If that counselor is putting a time limit on your decision and your not ready to make it then guess what there are other counselors. So don't put a time limit on your decision, it is a very tough one.
I got to tell you I agree with the counselor and I was told the same thing before my a totally lost control and got a DWI. I wasn't ready when I was told I needed to set limits but it was possible to set these limits and live with him. My situation was different in the way that he hadn't moved out. But I decided if he was going to stay there wouldn't be anymore drinking at my home (atleast not around myself or my kids). He has pretty much respected that, I think because it impressed him that I stood up to him and his alcohol.
Anyway, if you are confused you may not be ready to act, it is going to time for you to weigh it out and I'm sure the counselor will understand that and when and if you are ready will be there when that day comes.
If may be time to place a little more distance between you and your a, giving him an ulitmatum or just plan getting more time between phone conversations and visits. Maybe he needs to know that he won't have the best of both worlds anymore and that you have limits. It may help for him to think you are moving on with your life and it will definitely help you to find out if you even want to.
Honestly, If I was in you situation I would ask myself if maybe I am also abusing the seperation by using it to only have to deal with the good parts so to speak and then have someone to blame for the bad parts. I spent a lot of my marriage blaming my inlaws for messing up my a. They didn't love him enough, they didn't do enough with or for him, they turned their backs on him in a time they should have been agressively helping him through. Now I know that they did what they though was right and that sometimes they made the wrong choices but as a parent now i know how selfish and controlling I am with my kids, wanting the best for them and sometimes forgeting to let them think for themselves. Trying to solve their problems and enabling them (not exactly meaning to) to do things that I shouldn't. Remember that atleast for me there was a time I would buy my a beer to keep the peace and the try and get times where he was happy and fun to be around. Now I realize he doesn't need the beer for that, and he is more fun when he is free from that crutch and can think and speak intellegently and not have to repeat myself a million times or babysit him.
Anyway I guess what I am getting at is his parents may never realize what they are doing because they are his parents and want to fix everything and keep him happy.
As far as you go you need to just do what keeps you sane and as happy as possible. Take your time and don't rush into anything. It may be the best thing you ever do by cutting him loose or bringing him home but you can't make yourself sick wonder what you should do. I believe your hp will make it clear to you what needs to be done and when you do it you will feel content with your choice.
Good Luck, keep coming back and working your program.
Love Ya
Holly
Jeannie,
The above was my reply to your previous message and I just wanted to add that it sounds like your hp is at work and that you are on the right track. Only you know what you can do but I do believe that it is best for the a to hear what his kids are thinking right from their mouth. So keep up the good work and listen to your hp. Your doing great.
We are all here for you
Hi Jeannie,
Sometimes it is so easy to look at hard decisions we have to make and avoid them by wishing it away or avoiding them. It sounds like you are doing a great job of thinking of your options and looking inside to see what you are comfortable with. Reading about your kid's thoughts and willingness to pull together is amazing and a testament to you and the example you have shown them. They sound like compassionate, self respecting, good people. Those traits will help them throughout their entire lives. You all will be able to pull together and be fine no matter what life brings. Take care, sending you warm fuzzy thoughts
Jenny
Hi Holly,
Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it.
As for my in-laws, for many years I have gone back and forth about wethre I am wrong about them. I do know that I was right about them from the beginning.
They made him promise when he was 17 that he would never get married have children or leave them. They bought a funeral plot for the three of them with him between them when we first began dating. They refered to our son as the unfortunate incident while I was pregnant and right after he was born.
They want everything in their name, they have a very large life insurance policy on him with themselves as the beneficiaries and his nieces and nephews as the back up instead of his children.
His Mother cancelled the minister the day before our wedding pretending to be me. They do enable him and treat him like a child and the price is that they expect to always be first in his life. His Mother tells me repeatedly that they are his family, I am just his wife.
She says in the 10 commandments the bible says to put your parents first. (Honor thy Mother and Father). I told her actually the bible says "a man should leave his Mother and cleave only unto his wife". She says not in her bible.
My in-laws use alcohol and money to control and manipulate my husband. They disllike me becasue I will not cater to them, listen to their opinions and let them tell me how to raise my children. His mother continuously says I am lazy, stupid, unnattractive and from the wrong side of the tracks as she puts it. She rips apart any show of affection we give each oter, walks into my home uninvited and will even bang on the bedroom door if it is closed. When I nursed my children, she tried to make me feel uncomfortable and cheap for doing it, because it was not her way. I told her if she did not like it to leave, it is the natural way to feed my babies and my choice. She then kept tormenting my husband about when was he going to make me start feeding them formula.
The one thing I am sure of and anyone that has spent enough time around them to see her take off the phoney mask, is that some people are good and some are cruel and rotten. My in-laws are truly horrible people. I have tried too many times to give them the benefit of the doubt, only to have them turn it on me.
Love Jeannie
(((Jeanne)))
This is a very difficult decision for you Jeanne.
I admire your courage in letting an active A back into your home.
Perhaps the time is right for him to find sobriety.
You certainly have covered the angles from what I can see
You and your family are in my prayers
Wow,
LOL ok you win, that is very strange. His parents do have some very warped views, I guess the only reason I was saying that was with my experience with my in-laws. I have to say that they are very strange.
Anyway,
I think you are doing great, even better than you may think, I know that what ever you decide you will know it is right because you are happier in the end. It may not be easier to take him back but if you choose that you may find out it can work or you may find that it was a big mistake and it will help you to move on and get into a healthier situation for you and your kids. Whatever the outcome, keep coming back and keep in touch with your hp, that is really where the help is.
Love Ya
Holly
Jeannie
Wow!, I am so sorry that his parents are that way. It is hard enough to live with the A and to have his parents on top of it .... well it sucks. I would not take her calls, and I would lay the line down and tell her that enough is enough, that they are not welcome in your home until they stop bad mouthing you and contributing to your A's problem. Your kids are great. My sons are the same way, especially my oldest who just got his first job and is wants to give me money to help around the house because of my A's losing his job and the one he has now does not pay even half of what he used to get. Just hug your kids, and keep going forward.. Just remember to take care of you and the kids first. The A needs to do some major growing up and learn that he can't have his cake and eat it too!
Have a good week!
honeybunny