Dear members, I'm new to your message board and I'm hoping that some of you can relate to the terrible pain I'm feeling, and yes, I think probably you ALL can. After all, we ALL love someone who is immersed (or has been) immersed in this horrible disease. My story I'm sure, is mild compared to many of you, but I just don't know how to get through this PAIN. I fell in love with a man about 6 months ago, and I am convinced that he felt the same way. I knew he was "partying" with his friends, but I didn't get a clear idea of what was happening for awhile, as our schedules are very different (he works nights, I work days). At some point after my heart was involved, I realized that he was pulling away, going out with his buddies more, giving less....you get the picture, and eventually I realized that he also was drinking more and more and then I found out there was cocaine involved.... The situation is obvious to any idiot, but there I was - in love and it's SO hard to turn your back on someone you love, especially when you know they are in trouble. I tried so hard to love him and continue to hope but NOT to enable him. I think I did a good job. I confronted his behavior. I helped, but didn't take responsibility for him....at one point he called me because he was literally on the street, and I came to get him and let him stay with me, but after two weeks of seeing him drink his way through everything he made, I forced him to get his own place. I didn't lend him money. I told him I loved him but I always told him when his behavior was not ok with me. After 6 months of this, I started to distance myself. Didn't answer the phone, etc. I was clear with him that I didn't deserve the behavior and I would tell him when he was out of line (he had become more and more ANGRY). I got to the point where I was essentially leaving the relationship. And then? He ended it because I "make him talk!!!!". I understand that there's nothing I can do about his behavior and that it's better for us to be separated. My questions are: 1) How do I deal with the terrible pain? Especially that he rejected me in spite of his horrible behavior, 2)What do you do with this HOPE that wont quit when you really love someone else? 3)How do you deal with the cruel things that are said? Are they meant? I feel like he's a totally different person than the one I met, and it sounds CRAZY, but.... is it possible for someone to turn into a raging alcoholic in such short a period of time? I think the drugs made it easier for that to happen - I have read that cocaine and alcohol are a particularly deadly combination. I know that all who are on this board have struggled with unbelievably painful hurts and feelings, and I'm so grateful that there is some help and support out there. It's so hard to sit with yourself with your pain. Thank you to any and all who will respond.
sanddie said
May 7, 2005
Hello Bonnie!!! HUGGGGS, as I feel your pain almost 5 months since the break up with my ex a whom I love and will ALWAYS love tremendously. Same situation, finding he would start going out more with buddies and the drinking became obvious.... I hoped, I prayed and THEN I realized that praying for someone to love you how they are uncapable of loving you because of their addiction is NO DIFFERENT than a drug addict praying for more drugs. It was with this discovery, I began to focus on trying to figure out what it REALLY was about ME that kept me holding onto a relationship where the person did not reciprocate as much as I NEEDED him too. I started questioning why I would SETTLE for not being loved and respected as I completely NEED and WANTED to be loved and respected-- Someone to give me flowers on occasion, plans for dinner. Lord knows, I was ALWAYS the one making the "dates", which essentially became obvious to me that were more of a "good time" for him. Wherever there was alcohol was a good time basically... Little things such as bowling or going to a movie became less and less and we would typically end up planning our night to go shoot pool, at a casino, at his friends house OR at his or my place with that 12 pk/24 case beer. I would sit with him, holding him as we would watch a movie and as the nights got to be more the same, I realized that although he was right there with me ALLOWING me to love him, he really wasn't THERE mentally, emotionally--- Sure, he would hold my hand or stay close to me, as I had NO DOUBT he completely loved me-- BUT, I also had NO DOUBT that his alcoholic lifestyle was what came above all else in his life. He could take or leave our relationship, but NEVER alcohol. Learning all of this continued to cause me to look at myself-- MY NEEDS, question WHY I have chosen to be in this relationship and neglect my feelings or the feelings I deserve to have shown to me by someone who is supposed to love me.
I went to the bookstore shortly after our breakup and browsed the shelves for about an hour or so, just asking God to guide me to a book (in this HUGE, OVERWHELMING store) that would help me gain insight to the pain I was feeling and how to overcome it since I really had no choice-- it was either stay in the relationship and give up what I wanted and needed from a man who barely could love himself OR walk away and seriously learn to TRUST God that someday the pain will ease. There were sooooo many nights, I felt as if I was going to have a heart attack from the pain I felt-- it is indescribable, particularly that first 4-6 weeks. Now on occasion, my eyes will tear as they are now, as I respond to you thinking of how much I love him-- BUT, the peace I have found in not having to always HOPE for someone to treat me a certain way or love me I have gained.
Ultimately, I owe EVERYTHING to God-- my heart, mind, soul, and body, as I can close my eyes whenever necessary and imagine His comfort... holding me through my pain and within minutes, I feel peace and love. Ironically, the love also has me reflect on the love I have of my ex and makes me realize how blessed I have been that God has allowed me to love so deeply. In turn, the end result during these sad times where I miss him terribly ends up reversing itself and reflecting on the good memories that I will ALWAYS be able to carry in my thoughts and on my heart. Had him and I continued and not walked away from eachother, I can honestly say these thoughts would be clouded and distorted. I am learning more day by day that I'd MUCH rather have this love in my heart FOREVER, then to live a life everyday trying to detach from pain, which is essentially distancing myself-- whether emotionally, mentally or physically. That type of roller coaster ride is definitely NOT healthy for me... I have chose God and with God comes stability and balance. :)))
Getting back to the book store--- after searching the shelves, I found a book that couldn't have helped me through this more..... God DEFINITELY answered that prayer request. The name of the book is titled "Love Hangover" and it is by Shewanda Riley, M.A. with Dr. Germaine Hawkins. This book is what set me on the road to letting go permanently and discovering how much prayer for my ex can be healing to my soul as well. I also can say that I am able to love him with all my heart whether we ever see eachother another day in our life and it has changed the person I am because of it. It feels GREAT to be able to love. :)))
Take Care and hang in there..... I really recommend the book, as it is awesome.
-- Edited by sanddie at 20:02, 2005-05-07
jrtjosey said
May 8, 2005
Welcome Bonnie- you have found a bunch of wonderful people. They have helped me so much in last 60 days. i encourage you to join us in the chat room and for meetings. It has been so helpful. i am proud to say I have had only one melt down since i met this group!
josey
bonnie3000 said
May 8, 2005
Thanks so much sanddie for your post - thank you for your time and suggestion for the book. I'll order it today. Thanks also, Josey for your welcome. I'll try to get to some meetings and I'll try the chat room - but I tried yesterday and had some trouble (it's probably me, I'm new to the chat room thing). sanddie, your post reminded me that I need to focus more on prayer and to get more help from what alanon refers to as HP.... it's hard to remember that when you feel like you're falling apart. Also the reminder that it takes time is a good one. Of course I know this, but when you're feeling so terrible emotionally, intellectual knowledge doesn't help much. For me, I felt some relief at first when my A ended our relationship, I had a good idea of how much I had given without much in return and that it was likely to get worse, not better. I struggled with the thought of ending it many times, and intended to but never quite could get there..... I tried to talk to him about it, but he just felt pressured and when he got more and more angry in general, then he began to focus on ME. .... so although it has been a week since the breakup, I'm actually feeling much worse than at first. It feels like the pain has just taken over, and all those sensible thoughts and the fears of things getting worse, and question of whether I want to be stuck in a year with a totally dysfunctional A because I don't know how to get out....all those things are gone and it's all just raw feelings...And there's something about having to Give Up on my HOPE!
I could use some help with more specific behaviors of Alcoholics, it would perhaps help me take it less personally. I'm having a lot of trouble with being rejected because I tried to talk to him. I honestly didn't nag or yell or get angry (except a couple of times but I stayed pretty calm) , I tried so hard to detach, I would ask innocent questions, for example, he would say he'd had a terrible couple of days, and just asking -what happened? would send him on an angry roll! He brought it up, and I was just trying to listen and make him feel supported. Is the anger typical? I'm also having trouble with the speed with which he "got there". I thought it took years of heavy drinking.... How can a man go from not drinking much (social drinking?) to dysfunctional in a few months? Anybody who can offer any clarification? Other recommendations for books? Thanks again
Bonnie
dot said
May 8, 2005
Hi Bonnie - Welcome. You are in the right place. We've all been hurt by the disease of alcoholism.
Al-anon and open AA meetings have taught me not to take the mean words personally. The a usually feels that way about himself and only dares say these things to us - who love unconditionally.
Find the Al-Anon meetings in your area and go to as many as you can. Get some phone numbers so when you feel hopeless or down in any way you can call someone who understands. Sometmes we only need someone to listen and validate our feelings - and tell us we're not crazy.
Sometimes an a will curb his drinking when meeting a new person in his life and after the relationship settles a bit the a goes back to his usual habits. I found with the a in my life that after a period of controlled drinking and then drinking heavily again it was like he had never slowed down - he was right back to the mean hateful person ha had been before.
Al-Anon won't solve all our problems but it gives us the tools to take care of ourselves and a group of people to support us and love us unconditionally.
Keep coming back - it gets better.
Love and hugs - Dot
Diva said
May 8, 2005
Hi Bonnie, and thank you for your well-written post. Yes, we can all relate to your words. Either we are there now, or we have been. As for the pain...only time can heal the heartache you are experiencing. Time is the great healer, you know, and things will geet easier. Does he mean the things he says when he is drunk? No I don't think so. I prefer to believe the disease is talking, and ranting on about things he will not remember. I have reminded my a about hurtful things he has said, and he not only doesn't remember, he says he cannot imagine saying such untrue things. This horrible disease can kill us just as surely as a bullet to the heart. But we musn't let that happen. Good for you for not enabling. Sometimes that is the hardest lesson to learn. Let him fall by himself. Only then can he come to realize he cannot conquer this alone, and he will be ready to ask for help. As for you, AlAnon meetings are a must. Find them and go often. Meanshile, my prayers and positive thoughts are with you.
..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ ..·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ ...·´ Diva-:¦:-
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*
sanddie said
May 8, 2005
I remember when him and I were together initially for the first year or so. It was quite obvious that his drinking was being maintained at a level that didn't interfer in our relationship. However, after the newness of the relationship wore off, his alcoholic tendencies and true extent of his addiction became obvious. The "ACT" that he portrayed, which initially I believe was with true intentions of wanting a different lifestyle soon became overwhelming for him because of him not addressing the emotions behind what causes him to drink... In addition to the influence his ENTIRE alcoholic family has in his life showing him it is acceptable-- the odds were completely against me from the beginning, even more so because of this in particular. They shunned him when he was with me, which made it even more difficult for our relationship because it made him constantly live with guilt in having to pick a side, me or his family. I was something his family didn't accept from the beginning without ever having even met me AND would NEVER accept because I didn't fit into their drinking lifestyle. They continued to keep him held to his past lifestyle by encouraging whatever it was that would keep him away from a new lifestyle with me... Even not inviting me to his mothers wedding (which was at a bar) Yet, invited his ex g/f, who is the mother of his child that he had broken up with quite awhile ago and who was a bartender. Imagine THAT!! Of course, HE still chose to allow them to treat me this way and not defend our relationship and bring me anyway-- that was HIS choice.
As time passed, (only 6 months to a year that we had been together out of a 3 year on/off relationship) it became obvious that even when he was not drinking, he was a different person, in that not settled or calm-- so much anxiety and that is how I began realizing his NEED for alcohol and weed in his life. He even indicated that he was self-medicating himself, as a doctor would prescribe drugs for someone with anxiety (like mine has if I feel the need for something on occasion).
We tried counseling and he was very willing, but what I realized is that as much as he wanted to do this counseling and was quite open with how much he loved me, he was also very open and verbal about drinking is his lifestyle and how he looks forward to his beer after working a hard week or day as it became more frequently. It was then, during the counseling that I told the counselor, that is his lifestyle choice and I have my lifestyle choice so if it means we have to part and go our own ways, I will do that-- telling him how much it would hurt, but I will let him live his life.
He used to say to me that all he needed was me and God to help him through this and that he couldn't attend an AA meeting whenver we openly talked about this because he was so shy and really had an underlying extent of fear really. It was as if he were a 12 year old child with the fears he tried so hard NOT to show, but were obvious. The fact, he couldn't set boundaries or stick up for himself, closing up inside-- all typical of a child. Someone once told me that it seems that a person with an addiction tend to act an age where this addiction first affected them. For instance, if parents had always taught their children at a young age to be dependent on other people, alcohol or drugs and they chose to do that in their teenage years, then typically they bring those teenage behaviors into their adult life BECAUSE they never learned to go beyond those years in development-- emotionally or mentally. The more I see this of adult children of alcoholics or as myself as a codependent, the more I see how I hadn't matured emotionally as people who come from healthy family upbringings even through today. I'm working hard at it though and have come a long way, but know that there will always be something I need to unlearn. :)))
So, like you in this relationship, I know where you're at.... you begin to recognize the behavior and eventually a choice must be made or both end up hurt with resentment, anger and ultimately can result in being spiritually broken. I've been there and back a couple of times before this last relationship I had and I can say that for me to have walked away from the relationship, despite the consequence of not having the companionship I would LOVE to have in my life is ultimately the healthiest decision I have made..... Of course, the pain at times seems overwhelming, BUT.... I know I am healthy because I can allow him to live his life-- even when he is in the arms of another woman who will love him JUST AS HE IS....
Dear members, I'm new to your message board and I'm hoping that some of you can relate to the terrible pain I'm feeling, and yes, I think probably you ALL can. After all, we ALL love someone who is immersed (or has been) immersed in this horrible disease. My story I'm sure, is mild compared to many of you, but I just don't know how to get through this PAIN. I fell in love with a man about 6 months ago, and I am convinced that he felt the same way. I knew he was "partying" with his friends, but I didn't get a clear idea of what was happening for awhile, as our schedules are very different (he works nights, I work days). At some point after my heart was involved, I realized that he was pulling away, going out with his buddies more, giving less....you get the picture, and eventually I realized that he also was drinking more and more and then I found out there was cocaine involved.... The situation is obvious to any idiot, but there I was - in love and it's SO hard to turn your back on someone you love, especially when you know they are in trouble. I tried so hard to love him and continue to hope but NOT to enable him. I think I did a good job. I confronted his behavior. I helped, but didn't take responsibility for him....at one point he called me because he was literally on the street, and I came to get him and let him stay with me, but after two weeks of seeing him drink his way through everything he made, I forced him to get his own place. I didn't lend him money. I told him I loved him but I always told him when his behavior was not ok with me. After 6 months of this, I started to distance myself. Didn't answer the phone, etc. I was clear with him that I didn't deserve the behavior and I would tell him when he was out of line (he had become more and more ANGRY). I got to the point where I was essentially leaving the relationship. And then? He ended it because I "make him talk!!!!". I understand that there's nothing I can do about his behavior and that it's better for us to be separated. My questions are: 1) How do I deal with the terrible pain? Especially that he rejected me in spite of his horrible behavior, 2)What do you do with this HOPE that wont quit when you really love someone else? 3)How do you deal with the cruel things that are said? Are they meant? I feel like he's a totally different person than the one I met, and it sounds CRAZY, but.... is it possible for someone to turn into a raging alcoholic in such short a period of time? I think the drugs made it easier for that to happen - I have read that cocaine and alcohol are a particularly deadly combination. I know that all who are on this board have struggled with unbelievably painful hurts and feelings, and I'm so grateful that there is some help and support out there. It's so hard to sit with yourself with your pain. Thank you to any and all who will respond.
Hello Bonnie!!! HUGGGGS, as I feel your pain almost 5 months since the break up with my ex a whom I love and will ALWAYS love tremendously. Same situation, finding he would start going out more with buddies and the drinking became obvious.... I hoped, I prayed and THEN I realized that praying for someone to love you how they are uncapable of loving you because of their addiction is NO DIFFERENT than a drug addict praying for more drugs. It was with this discovery, I began to focus on trying to figure out what it REALLY was about ME that kept me holding onto a relationship where the person did not reciprocate as much as I NEEDED him too. I started questioning why I would SETTLE for not being loved and respected as I completely NEED and WANTED to be loved and respected-- Someone to give me flowers on occasion, plans for dinner. Lord knows, I was ALWAYS the one making the "dates", which essentially became obvious to me that were more of a "good time" for him. Wherever there was alcohol was a good time basically... Little things such as bowling or going to a movie became less and less and we would typically end up planning our night to go shoot pool, at a casino, at his friends house OR at his or my place with that 12 pk/24 case beer. I would sit with him, holding him as we would watch a movie and as the nights got to be more the same, I realized that although he was right there with me ALLOWING me to love him, he really wasn't THERE mentally, emotionally--- Sure, he would hold my hand or stay close to me, as I had NO DOUBT he completely loved me-- BUT, I also had NO DOUBT that his alcoholic lifestyle was what came above all else in his life. He could take or leave our relationship, but NEVER alcohol. Learning all of this continued to cause me to look at myself-- MY NEEDS, question WHY I have chosen to be in this relationship and neglect my feelings or the feelings I deserve to have shown to me by someone who is supposed to love me.
I went to the bookstore shortly after our breakup and browsed the shelves for about an hour or so, just asking God to guide me to a book (in this HUGE, OVERWHELMING store) that would help me gain insight to the pain I was feeling and how to overcome it since I really had no choice-- it was either stay in the relationship and give up what I wanted and needed from a man who barely could love himself OR walk away and seriously learn to TRUST God that someday the pain will ease. There were sooooo many nights, I felt as if I was going to have a heart attack from the pain I felt-- it is indescribable, particularly that first 4-6 weeks. Now on occasion, my eyes will tear as they are now, as I respond to you thinking of how much I love him-- BUT, the peace I have found in not having to always HOPE for someone to treat me a certain way or love me I have gained.
Ultimately, I owe EVERYTHING to God-- my heart, mind, soul, and body, as I can close my eyes whenever necessary and imagine His comfort... holding me through my pain and within minutes, I feel peace and love. Ironically, the love also has me reflect on the love I have of my ex and makes me realize how blessed I have been that God has allowed me to love so deeply. In turn, the end result during these sad times where I miss him terribly ends up reversing itself and reflecting on the good memories that I will ALWAYS be able to carry in my thoughts and on my heart. Had him and I continued and not walked away from eachother, I can honestly say these thoughts would be clouded and distorted. I am learning more day by day that I'd MUCH rather have this love in my heart FOREVER, then to live a life everyday trying to detach from pain, which is essentially distancing myself-- whether emotionally, mentally or physically. That type of roller coaster ride is definitely NOT healthy for me... I have chose God and with God comes stability and balance. :)))
Getting back to the book store--- after searching the shelves, I found a book that couldn't have helped me through this more..... God DEFINITELY answered that prayer request. The name of the book is titled "Love Hangover" and it is by Shewanda Riley, M.A. with Dr. Germaine Hawkins. This book is what set me on the road to letting go permanently and discovering how much prayer for my ex can be healing to my soul as well. I also can say that I am able to love him with all my heart whether we ever see eachother another day in our life and it has changed the person I am because of it. It feels GREAT to be able to love. :)))
Take Care and hang in there..... I really recommend the book, as it is awesome.
-- Edited by sanddie at 20:02, 2005-05-07
Welcome Bonnie- you have found a bunch of wonderful people. They have helped me so much in last 60 days. i encourage you to join us in the chat room and for meetings. It has been so helpful. i am proud to say I have had only one melt down since i met this group!
josey
Thanks so much sanddie for your post - thank you for your time and suggestion for the book. I'll order it today. Thanks also, Josey for your welcome. I'll try to get to some meetings and I'll try the chat room - but I tried yesterday and had some trouble (it's probably me, I'm new to the chat room thing). sanddie, your post reminded me that I need to focus more on prayer and to get more help from what alanon refers to as HP.... it's hard to remember that when you feel like you're falling apart. Also the reminder that it takes time is a good one. Of course I know this, but when you're feeling so terrible emotionally, intellectual knowledge doesn't help much. For me, I felt some relief at first when my A ended our relationship, I had a good idea of how much I had given without much in return and that it was likely to get worse, not better. I struggled with the thought of ending it many times, and intended to but never quite could get there..... I tried to talk to him about it, but he just felt pressured and when he got more and more angry in general, then he began to focus on ME. .... so although it has been a week since the breakup, I'm actually feeling much worse than at first. It feels like the pain has just taken over, and all those sensible thoughts and the fears of things getting worse, and question of whether I want to be stuck in a year with a totally dysfunctional A because I don't know how to get out....all those things are gone and it's all just raw feelings...And there's something about having to Give Up on my HOPE!
I could use some help with more specific behaviors of Alcoholics, it would perhaps help me take it less personally. I'm having a lot of trouble with being rejected because I tried to talk to him. I honestly didn't nag or yell or get angry (except a couple of times but I stayed pretty calm) , I tried so hard to detach, I would ask innocent questions, for example, he would say he'd had a terrible couple of days, and just asking -what happened? would send him on an angry roll! He brought it up, and I was just trying to listen and make him feel supported. Is the anger typical? I'm also having trouble with the speed with which he "got there". I thought it took years of heavy drinking.... How can a man go from not drinking much (social drinking?) to dysfunctional in a few months? Anybody who can offer any clarification? Other recommendations for books? Thanks again
Bonnie
I remember when him and I were together initially for the first year or so. It was quite obvious that his drinking was being maintained at a level that didn't interfer in our relationship. However, after the newness of the relationship wore off, his alcoholic tendencies and true extent of his addiction became obvious. The "ACT" that he portrayed, which initially I believe was with true intentions of wanting a different lifestyle soon became overwhelming for him because of him not addressing the emotions behind what causes him to drink... In addition to the influence his ENTIRE alcoholic family has in his life showing him it is acceptable-- the odds were completely against me from the beginning, even more so because of this in particular. They shunned him when he was with me, which made it even more difficult for our relationship because it made him constantly live with guilt in having to pick a side, me or his family. I was something his family didn't accept from the beginning without ever having even met me AND would NEVER accept because I didn't fit into their drinking lifestyle. They continued to keep him held to his past lifestyle by encouraging whatever it was that would keep him away from a new lifestyle with me... Even not inviting me to his mothers wedding (which was at a bar) Yet, invited his ex g/f, who is the mother of his child that he had broken up with quite awhile ago and who was a bartender. Imagine THAT!! Of course, HE still chose to allow them to treat me this way and not defend our relationship and bring me anyway-- that was HIS choice.
As time passed, (only 6 months to a year that we had been together out of a 3 year on/off relationship) it became obvious that even when he was not drinking, he was a different person, in that not settled or calm-- so much anxiety and that is how I began realizing his NEED for alcohol and weed in his life. He even indicated that he was self-medicating himself, as a doctor would prescribe drugs for someone with anxiety (like mine has if I feel the need for something on occasion).
We tried counseling and he was very willing, but what I realized is that as much as he wanted to do this counseling and was quite open with how much he loved me, he was also very open and verbal about drinking is his lifestyle and how he looks forward to his beer after working a hard week or day as it became more frequently. It was then, during the counseling that I told the counselor, that is his lifestyle choice and I have my lifestyle choice so if it means we have to part and go our own ways, I will do that-- telling him how much it would hurt, but I will let him live his life.
He used to say to me that all he needed was me and God to help him through this and that he couldn't attend an AA meeting whenver we openly talked about this because he was so shy and really had an underlying extent of fear really. It was as if he were a 12 year old child with the fears he tried so hard NOT to show, but were obvious. The fact, he couldn't set boundaries or stick up for himself, closing up inside-- all typical of a child. Someone once told me that it seems that a person with an addiction tend to act an age where this addiction first affected them. For instance, if parents had always taught their children at a young age to be dependent on other people, alcohol or drugs and they chose to do that in their teenage years, then typically they bring those teenage behaviors into their adult life BECAUSE they never learned to go beyond those years in development-- emotionally or mentally. The more I see this of adult children of alcoholics or as myself as a codependent, the more I see how I hadn't matured emotionally as people who come from healthy family upbringings even through today. I'm working hard at it though and have come a long way, but know that there will always be something I need to unlearn. :)))
So, like you in this relationship, I know where you're at.... you begin to recognize the behavior and eventually a choice must be made or both end up hurt with resentment, anger and ultimately can result in being spiritually broken. I've been there and back a couple of times before this last relationship I had and I can say that for me to have walked away from the relationship, despite the consequence of not having the companionship I would LOVE to have in my life is ultimately the healthiest decision I have made..... Of course, the pain at times seems overwhelming, BUT.... I know I am healthy because I can allow him to live his life-- even when he is in the arms of another woman who will love him JUST AS HE IS....
Take Care! :)))
-- Edited by sanddie at 20:41, 2005-05-08