Standing alone: we are all in this together by ourselves. I verily much stand alone in my beliefs of God, Life, etc. If I were to fret to how or what others believe, then I could not say the previous. I have not met a 12-step program that was not an organization or a religion. I have nothing against organizations or religions, my kitchen is well organized and my beliefs have much ardor and faith, and I am of the group of ‘One’. It is just my beliefs do not have walls. “4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith”. -- Is Webster wrong? Is that not Al-anon, Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, Emotional Anonymous, and so on? By that dictionary definition all 12-step programs are religions. -- “1 a : the act or process of organizing or of being organized b : the condition or manner of being organized. 2 a : ASSOCIATION, SOCIETY *charitable organizations* b : an administrative and functional structure (as a business or a political party); also : the personnel of such a structure”. -- Again, is Webster wrong? By those definitions all 12-step programs are organizations… rules and all.
I get a kick out of the rule that only Al-non or A.A. approved literature at the meetings. Teachers come in many kinds of shapes, forms and colors, but what is being taught is singular in nature: Love. So when one finds hers or his truth in what appears to be non 12-step programs and bring the truth to a 12-step program as with Al-anon, what she or he has in essence done is to bring Al-non truths found elsewhere to Al-non. The that person’s enlightenment just came in another coloring, another word picturing, another shape, but the same teachings. When she or he brings Al-non truths to the world she or he is bringing world truths to the world.
I recently sat at an A.A. table. The concept of the higher power, God, and the first step were being shared. I expounded that for me A.A. is not the organization of A.A. but of the several people sitting at the table at that moment was A.A. If I was more courageous perhaps, I would have said my ‘healing group’ rather than A.A.
If I am correct, in the beginning those that gathered together to heal from mental, emotional, social, physical illness commonly found amongst alcoholics, did not have a name. It was the ‘managers of the Universe’, who gave A.A. its name and then organized it into the segregated groups of Al-anon and A.A.
The other day, a woman personnel of the hospital that I go to twice a week for treatment, and I were talking about the aforementioned illness… that was most actually a healing group of two and could be called A.A., Al-non, and so on.
I attend face to face organized A.A. and Al-non on an occasional need to be around people who purport healing, of course cigarette smokers are not much healed in my opinion, neither are…. -- But, I am constantly attending healing groups meetings that could be called any of the 12-step programs to the dismay of managers of the Universe of course.
I thank the managers of the Universe for they have made it convenient for me to find groups of healing people at Al-anon and A.A meetings… well at least purported to be. I thank my God for finding the same in so many more places although to chance by me and to plan by my God.
P.S. my body has endured as much torture as did that God/Man two thousands years ago. Please hold the ‘aghasts’ until you come to put your finger in the HUGE scars of my body and see X-rays of the voids internally. I just wish I was so wise… or maybe not… perfect people get crucified I see.
Hugs & Luv,
-- Edited by richard at 23:47, 2005-05-01
teddybear said
May 2, 2005
Hi Richard,
It has been a very long time, since we have had any communication together. It is nice to be back on this message board, with all of my good friends. (family)
When I read your post, I felt much of your sadness, and I just wanted to let you know, that you are never alone, as long as your HP, and your friends are here on this message board. We all know suffering, and I know that you have had more than your share. Yet, we are not in a perfect world, and we are here to learn lessons, and become better, and stronger. When our physical life on this earth is finished, we will understand!! I respect, and understand how you could be feeling!! May God (HP) keep you strong, and may your day be filled with love, and sunshine.
Hugs & Blessings
cdb said
May 2, 2005
Hello Richard,
I apologize for now replying earlier. I do try to always reply to your posts. If you have read mine you will see that I have alot of my plate as usual. I guess I did not see any sadness in what you wrote like teddybear did. I read alot of personal wisdom based on your belief system. I always enjoy hearing what others believe because it helps me put my beliefs to test and in perspective.
As you know, I feel we understand each others physical pain to an extent. It is hard for people to understand the Immense pain we are in until they walk in your or mine's shoes. I don't know your pain like you do and you don't know mine like I do. I just know that when we look healthy from the outside that people don't understand.
I do try to be kind and loving to all people when possible. I am only human. My one brother that chose to cut off communication with us for a year and half now and not tell us why is athiest. Recently I heard an athiest on TV talk and it gave me some other aspects of him to think of. That is if he is still in fact an athiest. This lady said that they believe when we die that is IT. Finished. Over and done with. My brother has explained this to me before too. Thus, they live their life to the fullest. If my brother is in fact doing this, then by excluding us may help him to live his life to the fullest and happiness. ON the other hand, I believe we will be united in Heaven one day and I look forward to that. Therefore I live my life differently.
I like this message board because we can share like this and if people choose to be judgmental, well they can take what they like and leave the rest. I choose to be open minded. I have researched the AA history and read objectionable things about the founders too that I did not like. It took me a very long time to accept step one too. I finally decided to surrender my free will and just accept the program for what it is right now. My recovery is the most important thing in my life right now too. It is helping me and that is all that matters. The future with alanon is not known.
I am against smoking. I would not be able to attend any meeting with smoke due to my health. My daughter smokes and it has been something I have had to accept. She knows how I feel. She is not allowed to smoke in my house etc. I can relate on the smoking issue yet I still do not treat people differently because of this. I am overweight and people have a problem with that. I do too as a matter of fact because it is not good for my health. I am working on it the best I can. If people judge me for that, then that is their issue and not mine.
Isn't it nice that we as humans can get along when we choose to? Thanks for your posts. Update us on how you and your son and kittys are doing. your friend in recovery, cdb :)
sanddie said
May 2, 2005
Richard:
Once again, I must say that I completely appreciate your posts, as it's nice to hear your heartfelt beliefs and how they relate to ANY organization. We are all in this together, which means we should all be accepting of eachothers groups--- this isn't about segregation or who's literature is ultimately the "ONE" literature that should be talked about and focused on. After all, we will NEVER know what else we can learn if we do not allow others to share ALL of their resources with us. WE learn from eachother each day and to limit the expression of others feelings and thoughts because that is the Alanon or A.A. or any other organizations way can ultimately cause others to lose out on valuable insight of potential recovery methods that only help strengthen the process to living a healthy life.
Take Care and Lots of Huggggsss back at you....
Sandy
Jeannie said
May 3, 2005
(((Richard)))
You are never standing alone, you always have your HP with you.
Whatever works for a person to heal and feel good about themselves is a good thing. And if a piece of literature whether AA or any other helps a person to see and feel something then it has served its purpose.
No matter what a group is called if we can learn from it, we can benefit from it.
None of us are perfect, as a perfect person cannot live on this earth. If someone is perfect they are called to their final reward.
Sadly in this wonderful but unperfect world we live in, Good people are often crusified and punished for their beliefs. Maybe some day their will be a world where everyone is accepted for who or what he or she is, and whatever they believe in. We can all learn so much from each other if we just choose to listen.
Standing alone: we are all in this together by ourselves. I verily much stand alone in my beliefs of God, Life, etc. If I were to fret to how or what others believe, then I could not say the previous. I have not met a 12-step program that was not an organization or a religion. I have nothing against organizations or religions, my kitchen is well organized and my beliefs have much ardor and faith, and I am of the group of ‘One’. It is just my beliefs do not have walls. “4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith”. -- Is Webster wrong? Is that not Al-anon, Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, Emotional Anonymous, and so on? By that dictionary definition all 12-step programs are religions. -- “1 a : the act or process of organizing or of being organized b : the condition or manner of being organized. 2 a : ASSOCIATION, SOCIETY *charitable organizations* b : an administrative and functional structure (as a business or a political party); also : the personnel of such a structure”. -- Again, is Webster wrong? By those definitions all 12-step programs are organizations… rules and all.
I get a kick out of the rule that only Al-non or A.A. approved literature at the meetings. Teachers come in many kinds of shapes, forms and colors, but what is being taught is singular in nature: Love. So when one finds hers or his truth in what appears to be non 12-step programs and bring the truth to a 12-step program as with Al-anon, what she or he has in essence done is to bring Al-non truths found elsewhere to Al-non. The that person’s enlightenment just came in another coloring, another word picturing, another shape, but the same teachings. When she or he brings Al-non truths to the world she or he is bringing world truths to the world.
I recently sat at an A.A. table. The concept of the higher power, God, and the first step were being shared. I expounded that for me A.A. is not the organization of A.A. but of the several people sitting at the table at that moment was A.A. If I was more courageous perhaps, I would have said my ‘healing group’ rather than A.A.
If I am correct, in the beginning those that gathered together to heal from mental, emotional, social, physical illness commonly found amongst alcoholics, did not have a name. It was the ‘managers of the Universe’, who gave A.A. its name and then organized it into the segregated groups of Al-anon and A.A.
The other day, a woman personnel of the hospital that I go to twice a week for treatment, and I were talking about the aforementioned illness… that was most actually a healing group of two and could be called A.A., Al-non, and so on.
I attend face to face organized A.A. and Al-non on an occasional need to be around people who purport healing, of course cigarette smokers are not much healed in my opinion, neither are…. -- But, I am constantly attending healing groups meetings that could be called any of the 12-step programs to the dismay of managers of the Universe of course.
I thank the managers of the Universe for they have made it convenient for me to find groups of healing people at Al-anon and A.A meetings… well at least purported to be. I thank my God for finding the same in so many more places although to chance by me and to plan by my God.
P.S. my body has endured as much torture as did that God/Man two thousands years ago. Please hold the ‘aghasts’ until you come to put your finger in the HUGE scars of my body and see X-rays of the voids internally. I just wish I was so wise… or maybe not… perfect people get crucified I see.
Hugs & Luv,
-- Edited by richard at 23:47, 2005-05-01
Hi Richard,
It has been a very long time, since we have had any communication together. It is nice to be back on this message board, with all of my good friends. (family)
When I read your post, I felt much of your sadness, and I just wanted to let you know, that you are never alone, as long as your HP, and your friends are here on this message board. We all know suffering, and I know that you have had more than your share. Yet, we are not in a perfect world, and we are here to learn lessons, and become better, and stronger. When our physical life on this earth is finished, we will understand!! I respect, and understand how you could be feeling!! May God (HP) keep you strong, and may your day be filled with love, and sunshine.
Hugs & Blessings
Hello Richard,
I apologize for now replying earlier. I do try to always reply to your posts. If you have read mine you will see that I have alot of my plate as usual. I guess I did not see any sadness in what you wrote like teddybear did. I read alot of personal wisdom based on your belief system. I always enjoy hearing what others believe because it helps me put my beliefs to test and in perspective.
As you know, I feel we understand each others physical pain to an extent. It is hard for people to understand the Immense pain we are in until they walk in your or mine's shoes. I don't know your pain like you do and you don't know mine like I do. I just know that when we look healthy from the outside that people don't understand.
I do try to be kind and loving to all people when possible. I am only human. My one brother that chose to cut off communication with us for a year and half now and not tell us why is athiest. Recently I heard an athiest on TV talk and it gave me some other aspects of him to think of. That is if he is still in fact an athiest. This lady said that they believe when we die that is IT. Finished. Over and done with. My brother has explained this to me before too. Thus, they live their life to the fullest. If my brother is in fact doing this, then by excluding us may help him to live his life to the fullest and happiness. ON the other hand, I believe we will be united in Heaven one day and I look forward to that. Therefore I live my life differently.
I like this message board because we can share like this and if people choose to be judgmental, well they can take what they like and leave the rest. I choose to be open minded. I have researched the AA history and read objectionable things about the founders too that I did not like. It took me a very long time to accept step one too. I finally decided to surrender my free will and just accept the program for what it is right now. My recovery is the most important thing in my life right now too. It is helping me and that is all that matters. The future with alanon is not known.
I am against smoking. I would not be able to attend any meeting with smoke due to my health. My daughter smokes and it has been something I have had to accept. She knows how I feel. She is not allowed to smoke in my house etc. I can relate on the smoking issue yet I still do not treat people differently because of this. I am overweight and people have a problem with that. I do too as a matter of fact because it is not good for my health. I am working on it the best I can. If people judge me for that, then that is their issue and not mine.
Isn't it nice that we as humans can get along when we choose to? Thanks for your posts. Update us on how you and your son and kittys are doing. your friend in recovery, cdb :)
Richard:
Once again, I must say that I completely appreciate your posts, as it's nice to hear your heartfelt beliefs and how they relate to ANY organization. We are all in this together, which means we should all be accepting of eachothers groups--- this isn't about segregation or who's literature is ultimately the "ONE" literature that should be talked about and focused on. After all, we will NEVER know what else we can learn if we do not allow others to share ALL of their resources with us. WE learn from eachother each day and to limit the expression of others feelings and thoughts because that is the Alanon or A.A. or any other organizations way can ultimately cause others to lose out on valuable insight of potential recovery methods that only help strengthen the process to living a healthy life.
Take Care and Lots of Huggggsss back at you....
Sandy
(((Richard)))
You are never standing alone, you always have your HP with you.
Whatever works for a person to heal and feel good about themselves is a good thing. And if a piece of literature whether AA or any other helps a person to see and feel something then it has served its purpose.
No matter what a group is called if we can learn from it, we can benefit from it.
None of us are perfect, as a perfect person cannot live on this earth. If someone is perfect they are called to their final reward.
Sadly in this wonderful but unperfect world we live in, Good people are often crusified and punished for their beliefs. Maybe some day their will be a world where everyone is accepted for who or what he or she is, and whatever they believe in. We can all learn so much from each other if we just choose to listen.
Love Jeannie