Firstly, I'd like to say that Religion and Jesus are two completely DIFFERENT things.  Secondly, I'd like to say that in ANY situation, people are going to have different opinions.  As I have a different opinion of how some Alanon groups do not allow a person to disclose during their OWN private share WHATEVER it is in literature or material they have found very helpful that has assisted in their recovery.  Essentially, contradicting what I thought recovery should be all about-- allowing people to share their deepest emotional insight despite what others THINK about how that person feels....

I will ALWAYS talk about Jesus, whether I'm in an Alanon meeting or work or anywhere I go because that is what my heart is made of-- love and compassion for others, including an A.  I will also say that it saddens me and greatly disturbs me to hear others who say that they do not believe in Jesus and have their own beliefs. BUT, I respect that and let it go in one ear and out the other-- giving it to God to work it through for ME. 

This is what recovery is all about-- whatever the program is that offers recovery.  It's about treating people with respect, kindness, compassion AND allowing them to say/share their innermost emotions.....   Just as Jesus had swept the sand off his feet when not welcome in his own home town, amongst family and friends, eventually turned and walked away so that the plan God had for his life would not be halted, we MUST do the same if our peace and connection with "OUR HP", as Alanon refers to it is affected.

So here I am posting to boards, no longer a part of the online meeting because of being told that I cannot talk about certain things or have certain behaviors while online.  Ultimately, that is a form of control and I don't want any part of it......  I miss people who are sincere and can relate and for those of you reading, you know who you are-- we had fun until strict rules were implemented to stop that fun.

There is ONE MORE comment I'd like to make as an observation and analysis of myself and ALL of these self-help groups-----  If our life is so focused on being dependent on self help groups, then at what point do we make the change of direction in our life to break from that and not be dependent on it, pursuing an entire different direction for ourselves-- pursuing our dreams, our goals, our hobbies and CHANGING our life, not merely continuing to talk about the problems that occur? 

I guess what I'm curious to know is at what point in recovery as a codependent does it become clear to a person of how just like the alcoholic in which words are ONLY spoken over and over again, action is taken to change their life, their circumstances in recognizing that WE are not the alcoholics savior, nor our we our own savior.....   We talk about giving it to our HP, but often after years of being in all these programs, the feelings stay the same and essentially the program becomes ones life......  so really, what has changed for us?  Our lives stay the same and we stay in programs for several years.   Even the alcoholic is FORCED to leave rehab at some point--- so what's the difference with our problem compared to theirs?   Someone once gave me some GREAT insight on this...  And it was an alcoholic, but it was profound when you think about it.  He said to me, it's ironic how a codependent is dependent on their self help groups to be okay, which in many cases have taken up a great deal of their life being dependent on them----- gave me ALOT to think about actually and I realized he is completely RIGHT.   Our lives and our inability to make choices that are healthier for us, that offer peace ultimately keep us committed to groups that we NEED to get through a moment, day, week, year and even years--- Time in which, wouldn't we want to be doing OTHER things than sitting online or in a meeting ALL the time.  Things we enjoy, love, that bring us peace?  A hobby, our children, a walk in the woods, on a lake, wherever to learn ourselves completely and our relationship with God.  (HP, according to Higher Power)

No difference if we are dependent on alcohol or PEOPLE.  I guess what we need to ask ourselves is could we be alone in this world and be okay completely with NOBODY.  At least that is to the point I got to and realized YES, for the first time YES.  And I was ONLY able to get to this sincere answer in my heart for one reason--- GOD!!!  That is ALL we need and with God, our lives change, WE change......  We know right from wrong and what's acceptable and what isn't.  How others should treat us, learn we deserve to be loved fully with compassion and respected completely by ANYONE OR MOVE ON.

True recovery comes from knowing that we can trust (as Alanon puts it) our HP to live a life He/She/It wants us to live and staying in our same circumstances I believe doesn't say too much about how much we talk about how we trust our HP because there is little to no action behind it... but rather, continuing to stay in a bad situation, our actions show that where we are is our comfort zone and we remain because good or bad change-- it can be very scary for most people.  After all, if we can control things, then we feel like we are in control of our lives.

Take Care!!!

Sandy

-- Edited by sanddie at 16:06, 2005-04-30

I addressed part of your post when you responded to mine in another thread. But I would like to I would also like to repeat what I said on a portion of something you said here in this thread & expand the thought.

Sanddie said :"There is ONE MORE comment I'd like to make as an observation and analysis of myself and ALL of these self-help groups-----  If our life is so focused on being dependent on self help groups, then at what point do we make the change of direction in our life to break from that and not be dependent on it, pursuing an entire different direction for ourselves-- pursuing our dreams, our goals, our hobbies and CHANGING our life, not merely continuing to talk about the problems that occur?"

This is something that has come up in my life the past week or so as a result of several negative comments made about my personal recovery program by others in the program. Somewhere in my own personal recovery program I made the decision to be a survivor, not a victim. I had spent many years being a victim and quite frankly, did not enjoy it. My goal in recovery was to use the tools available to me to become an adult with a healthy life, healthy attitudes and healthy coping skills. I did not start attending any f2f 12-step program believeing that, unlike medicine for diabetes or any other illness, it was a lifelong necessity for me to continue to attend a regular course of meetings. For me, the rooms were a learning environment and to me the purpose was to use the skills I learned in those safe environments in the real everyday world where there is no safety net. I can only assume, just like in any illness, that the treatment and recovery for each person is as different as each individual. It is also my understanding of any 12-step program that each individual must decide what is right for them. In other words, no one in any group has the right to tell anyone else how to run their recovery or judge how others work their recovery. I returned to the program because I was facing what to me were new challenges, never before having been the daughter or sister in-law of an alcoholic and beleive it or not, it is quite different, atleast for me, from being the daughter of alcoholics. For me, I do not beleive that my participation in al-anon is going to be forever, I beleive I need to refocus and learn how to use the original recovery tools I leanred in the past in these new relationships. That being said, the tools I learn in al-anon I will use the rest of my life even though I may not need to go to meetings for the rest of my life.

Al-anon meetings are a small part of my life compared to my life as a whole. I find peace & joy in most of the things I do outside of a meeting. Right now, with the chaos of the in-laws, it is nice to have somewhere to go & someone to talk to who can understand the frustrations of the situation. It's nice to go somewhere where I am not asked or expected to fix things or people. It's nice to have a safety net while I figure out myself, no longer a child hiding in the corner for the storm to pass, in the chaotic relationship I have found myself in.

"Serenity is not freedom from the storm but peace amid the storm",

Jenna

Hello ,  everyone is welcome in Al-Anon regardless of religion or of none. I don't understand what part of that people don't get.  I came here believing in none and because of  Al-Anon and the gentle way it introduces" God of our understanding" I now have a God in my life who is running my  life.

 Preaching a particular belief would have driven me out of this program alone time ago . i have always appreciated the freedom that this program allows. And it is upsetting to me to read posts like this it just divides our purpose.

We are here to recover from the disease of alcoholism and to say that it ( 12 steps )keeps us in the same place and stuck is rediculous to me. I became unstuck several yrs ago , am still married to my  A. What anyone believes outside of a meeting is their business and it would be nice if the same respect were given to all.  We have enough to do changing our lives with out arguing over something  that is a personal choice and our literature makes that perfectly clear.

 

One of the many things I will be eternally grateful to Alanon for is teaching me to be non-judgemental.  I am now able to respect other peoples' views and not dismiss them in a disparaging way or try to force my will.  I take what I like and leave the rest. 

Alanon is not a religious Group.  If it had been, I may not have attended a second meeting.  But I am now able to respect your views and others whatever their religious beliefs. 

But i do feel very strongly that as a grateful member of Alanon;  CAL [Conference Approved Literature] says it all for me.  I personally don't want to read 'self-help literature'.

I haven't been in the chatroom when you shared Sandie so i don't know what went on there.  But I'm sorry to hear that you don't feel comfortable there now.  Let's not lose sight of why we initially sought out Alanon.   Each and every one of us has been effected by someone's drinking.  That's why we are here, united, in Alanon.  Let's put our religious or non religious beliefs to one side for a moment.  Let's just accept that each and everyone of us has a higher power of one kind or another and hopefully as individuals, each of us will find contact with that higher power.  Don't let us get bogged down with worrying about whether other people believe in Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, whatever.  Let's keep it simple.  Let us concentrate on the real issues here.  The day to day dealing and living with alcoholism.  And if we as individuals find solace in our personal beliefs, then that's wonderful, I'm happy for you.  Please don't feel offended if others don't share your views, or want to hear your views. 

Let's keep it simple.  The Alanon Twelve Step Programme says it all for me. 

Keep coming back Sandie.   This is a good place to be.  Sheila

 

The way I understand it is that during an actual MEETING, only CAL approved literature is allowed, and we are to keep discussion of our therapy, church, etc to a minimum, while keeping the focus on ourselves. For instance, we could say "While talking to my therapist last week, such and such an issue came up, which made me think of how I apply such and such an alanon principle to my life..." much as we would say "Something happened at work last week which blah blah blah" . However, we would NOT say "My therapist says that those who live with Alcoholics should do such and such". The traditions are very clear about this, and there is a reason for it. We do not want to dilute the purpose of alanon, and we do not want to drive away those who can not, for whatever reason, share our outside interests. Our "Big Book" - "Al-Anon Family Groups" has a chapter specifically about this very issue. However, so far as I understand it, talk outside meetings can be much more relaxed. Whether you are talking to an alanon friend on the phone, or here in the message boards, or during non-meeting chat, other issues can be raised. For example, we often see here in the boards the 'Getting Them Sober' books recommended, though they are not CAL. I don't really think that anyone has a problem with that. There is another point, which might be helpful to bring up here. Tradition 2 states "For our group purposes there is but one authority - a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern." The important words there in terms of this discussion are "our group conscience". If an issue is brought up and discussed among us, we will come to a concensus - that is the way God speaks to us. Sometimes it may take some time, if we start from widely differing viewpoints, but if we continue to talk, and to respect each other, the 'group conscience' will come to a decision.

I love all of the wisdom each of you has shown me on this issue with which I also struggle.

Jill

I don't know what led to this posting, but when I read it I made a few observations.

Step 3 states: Made a decision to turn  our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him.

It doesn't day Buddah or Manu, or Jesus or anything in paticular, just of my own understanding.

Some of us are in so much pain when we come to alanon that to even believe in God was not even possible. The beauty of this program is that no matter who your HP is you can be in this program. I know that if Step 3 said Jesus instead a God of my understanding, my groups wouldn't have the members that it has now. Alot of members of my group have came to believe in the same God as I do, but slowly, with helaing, and trust, and the knowledge that he is there and loves them, and is not the vengeful God they thought him to be.

I also know that when I speak of my god at a meeting I am very careful to call him my HP. I know who I am talking about, and so does he, that's all that truly matters. I am just in alanon to share my E S &H and to listen to others.

And now for the part about the program becoming our lives. My program gave me life, but it is not my life. Because my "A" is my husband I am at times a single working mom, THAT IS MY LIFE. I come to alanon to enhance my life, to give me new tools and to share mine with others. I AM PROUD that I will be a very old lady and still come to alanon. NOT because I am dependent on it, but because of me. Because of the new comer. If it wasn't for the people who have been in this program for years, who would help the newcomer? How would alanon stay alive? My sponsor has been in the porgram for over 20 years, and there is nothing wrong with that. She is not dependent on the program, but right now, as she guides me through my steps, she is my life line. And I will be darn proud when I can give to someone what she gives to me.

The wisdom in these rooms and the f2f meetings all over comes from the newcomer and oldtimer alike. And for that I am forever grateful.

DolphinLur

Lot of good points in all these posts.  I'd like to add just one thing...

I'd like to thank the "oldtimers" who even after they've "learned" the program, have found serenity, have made whatever changes they needed in life in order to be able to enjoy their life fully....I'd like to thank them for coming back and sharing with us newcomers, for that is how our program stays alive and how us newcomers learn and can grow into oldtimers ourselves.  I'd like to thank them for not just going on their merry way and taking what they learned to keep only to themself.  I'd like to thank them for doing that Step 12 work of carrying the message to others. 

No, we don't have to keep coming back.  There are no "rules".  But Thank God/HP we and they do keep coming back.  It was an oldtimer's story that gave me Hope, that kept me coming back.  I hope I'm able to do the same for someone someday.  What would this program be without the "We"?

Luv, Kis

Dear Sandy, I was in the room when the incident happened that you are talking about. As everyone else has said, Conference approved literature is the only reading approved in meetings.  Outside meetings and in chat, we can use whatever helps us through our day and what we thing might help others.  We can post all of the wonderful things we hear on the message board, or talk to people in meetings, or talk to our sponsors.  There are lots of places to share the things that help us with recovery. If you need a reason why we have conference approved literature in meetings, check the "How alanon works" book, and read about the traditions. The concepts and warranties also explain alot about alanon.

As for the amount of time I spend in meetings, I have been attending alanon for almost 13 years.  I have grown, and received much wisdom in those years from everyone...newcomer and oldtimer alike. I have learned to take what I like and leave the rest.  I can learn from someone I don't particularly like, and I can learn from the ones that I love as special friends and alanon family.  It's not my place to judge..that isn't what alanon is for.  If I had come to alanon only when I needed a "quick fix" for my problems nothing in my life would have changed. I keep coming back because I continue to learn about myself, and to pass on the words of wisdom I hear from other people in the program.  Do people that have a particular religion only go to church when they have a problem or crisis? No,they go frequently to stay in touch with the HP of their choosing. I go to alanon because I want to stay in touch with the HP of my choosing. I want to learn about me and to grow and my problems are not cured in a 6 week session.  It took me a long time to get the way I am, and it is going to take a long time to make me better.

Hope that you will understand and some day return to the chat rooms and alanon, Sandy, you are very welcome there. Progress not Perfection.  SenoraBob

Hi Sandy,

I'm David grateful Alanon.  I have be coming to alanon for 1 year now.  I thank my Higher Power, whom I choose to call God, every day for having led me to this program when I needed it the most.  I also thank him for guiding those that came before me to the creation of this program.  For the words he sent down to those original 100 members of AA that wrote the Big Book, and for all whom have carried this message forward to us now and for all who will continue to carry it foward into the future.  The programs of AA and Alanon are truly miraculous and God inspired.

My divorce became final 4 weeks ago.  I have friends who know nothing except what I have told them about Alanon.  Several have told me..."Well now that you are divorced (from my a) you don't have to go to those meetings anymore do you?"

I just laughted to myself.  I cannot envison for now anyways, a day when Alanon will not be a part of my life.  Not because I have become "dependent on self help groups" but because I have found a home.  A place I feel safe.  A place I feel my HP.  Nowhere....and I mean nowhere....(and I attend church every week) do I get to feel closer to my God.  Nowhere does He speak to me more clearly.

The leader of my church was recently speaking to us on Sunday about defending our faith.  Not letting outside faiths cloud our beliefs and cause us to doubt our faith.

I have come to believe, that for me anyway, I am the member of two churchs, one the church of my baptism, the other my church of alanon.

I recently finished working through the book "The Purpose Driven Life".  Let me share a few quotes from chapter 21 in that book. 

"It is your job to protect the unity of your church"  "Unity is the soul of fellowship"  "God wants unity, not uniformity.  But for unity's sake we must never let differences divide us".  And one more.... "Conflict is usually a sign that the focus has shifted to less important issues, things the Bible calls "Disputable matters."  When we focus on personalities, preferences, interpretations, styles, or methods, division always happens".

What all this says to me is right there in our program literature too.

The Program of Alanon has been so crucial to MY recovery.  The fellowship of Alanon has given me a safe place to speak my mind, to be with an enormous variety of people that I would never have been exposed to otherwise, to learn, and yes to even get down on the floor with a tear yielding belly laugh (something I had forgotten how to do). Thank God that when I came into these rooms there were people here with the experience, strength and hope they have to give it to me.  I know Alanon was a gift to me from my HP.  I also know that, having recieved that gift, my HP intends for me to appreciate the gift given, to enjoy it, to nuture it and ultimately to pass the gift on to others, to honor Him by giving the gift to someone else as it was given to me.

Hope you will consider returning to the chat room, Sandy.  You are most welcome there. 

Yours in recovery,

David

David:

First of all, I'd like to thank you for extending the invitation of participating in chat at online meetings.  I do miss several of the people that I would chat with on occasion, BUT, when others in chat began being critical of my conversation with others OR others conversations with others if it did NOT involved Alanon specifically, that was when I knew it was time to walk away from here.  If a group is that structured to not allow people to be themselves and talk about whatever it is they want, need, and feel to talk about during chat, then I do not want any part of it.   That is a pretty good indication that shows its Alanon's way or no way.....  OH, that's not Alanon literature-- or Yikes, don't say that, it might offend someone--- Come On', isn't that what we deal with in our alcoholic relationships?  Let's be careful what we say, walk on eggshells, as not to offend anyone here (let's walk on eggshells not to offend our alcoholic-- detach)  That's what it is, detach ourselves from truly saying or feeling what we want to feel so that others are offended.   It's Alanons way or no way-- that should be the motto for some people here and I don't want a part of that because I don't want to be controlled by others who live ONLY by this program.  Couldn't that be classify a cult?  Hmmm, the definition of cult is, "5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion"

Of course, now it all makes sense to me.....  The scary things about cults is that when you have individuals that believe it is ONLY their way, then it does not allow a person to grow as thier own individual.  A cult is not limited to Religious material either.  Of course, as long as we are part of something, we feel like we belong, right?

You mention the following from A Purpose Driven Life, I too, have this book. 

"It is your job to protect the unity of your church"  "Unity is the soul of fellowship"  "God wants unity, not uniformity.  But for unity's sake we must never let differences divide us".  And one more.... "Conflict is usually a sign that the focus has shifted to less important issues, things the Bible calls "Disputable matters."  When we focus on personalities, preferences, interpretations, styles, or methods, division always happens".

I will say this in closing---  I did not appreciate, nor will ever appreciate any members of Alanon telling anyone else what they should or should not say during a share.  It is NOT THEIR business to be dictating to any individual.  Those who choose Alanon for support due to their pain-- that is completely accepted, but those who choose Alanon to dictate to others, IT MUST BE OUR WAY, Don't talk about that or this..... need to seek therapy for themselves and stop trying to control others.

This being said, I am done with this online program.  I pray for those of you who are truly in pain about your relationships or circumstances in your life, as my heart aches with yours....  However, let me say this.... There is ONLY ONE way to truly resolve what is causing you pain inside and that is your relationship with your HP.  It is not by following a course of instructions and giving so much power to a program that was ultimately written to specifically say our way is the ONLY way to recovery.

Take Care!

 

 

Sandy,

I too will pray for you..that God's will be done in your life.  As I do daily for myself and all those around me.  Just one more thing...Alanon does not say that our way is the only way to recovery.  Not at all!  In my opinion, it says, here is the way WE were, here is what WE did, here is the way WE are now.  If you want we we have, we believe that you can have it too.

God Bless You, Sandy....And you take care too.

Sanddie -

My own moment of doubt seems to have re-opened a wound for you regarding meetings, I am sorry about that. When I posted in the other thread yesterday, it was because I was confused how on one hand Al-anon speaks of using only al-anon approved liturature in meetings and on the other it disregards this same edict in meetings by using a prayer from the Bible which is not, to the best of my knowledge, on any list of al-anon approved liturature. I don't even usually post to al-anon but since my particular issue was with a f2f al-anon meeting and I couldn't seem to find any help for my issue anywhere else, I came here hoping that someone could point in me in the right direction since I had never had an issue like this with any ala-teen or al-anon meeing I have ever participated in. I felt it would be inappropriate to take my issue with al-anon to a different group for a number of reasons, not the least being that if people don't attend al-anon how would they know what to do?

I have a hard time with the old "do as I say, not as I do" routine & for me, that is what my situation felt like to me. In essense, we can use a prayer from the Bible, but you cannot voice that its religous basis makes you uncomfortable because it's your own personality issue that is making you uncomfortable and nothing else. As long as I choose to continue to participate in al-anon, I will not sit quietly in a meeting and watch while some people choose to disregard the steps, traditions and concepts which smacking the hands of others who do the same. It's a spiritual conviction for me.

As for al-anon being a cult, it has been called that before by many other. But the truth is, almost any type of organized anything can be called a cult. I was watching a West Wing rerun last night of the 1st episode after 9/11 & this quote is rining loudly in my ears at the moment ... it went something like this: "I have no problem if a religion tells you that your beard has to be a certain length or how to cheer at a soccer game. What I do have a problem with is when not following those rules becomes a crime against the State." In other words, no one and I don't care who they are, has the right to tell anyone else how to run their recovery and that includes making any judgements, including a judgement as to when someone no longer needs to be in a meeting room. Whether I personally attend meetings or not, I can still carry the message of hope and recovery to others. Despite what anyone else in the world may think, my personal recovery is not dependant on attending ANY meeting.

I hate to post and run but I am late as it is.

Find peace,

Jenna

Jenna:

Once again, I completely agree with you with the concept that nobody has any authority or right to determine what is right for another individual in their recovery process, particularly when it relates to when they should, if ever stop attending meetings. 

The point I was trying to make with that strictly relates to how some Alanon members adhere to the rules so completely that they FORGET to allow a person to completely express themselves during their shares, speaking about ANYTHING they feel as an individual they need to speak about-- whether it references Alanon material or another recovery material that helps them. 

That is ONLY what this is all about.....   It is this type of attitude that detered me from some meetings, particularly those online here.

You sound like a very strong, well-education woman that has made HUGE strides in your recovery.  Thank you for your posts.

Take Care!!!

 

 Colossians 3:11  

I don't go to church, or read the bible to find the answers to recovery from the effects of alcoholism on my life. I don't go to church to share my recovery views with church members. Al-Anon is not therapy. We don't tell people what decisions to make. The format is to read and share the Al-Anon recovery, not which higher power we have chosen. Al-Anon has 12 traditions which guide us and help us continue to offer this recovery. To bring anything other than Al-Anon literature into a meeting breaks those traditions. It affiliates Al-Anon with outside issues.

Sponsorship is a great way to express our ever deepening understanding of our reliance on our personal higher power. Discussions before and after a meeting are a great place to talk about anything we like. But a meeting is for discussion of Al-Anon only. It's where we learn how to use the Al-Anon program from other's experience.

I don't go to the grocery store to get my car fixed. I don't go to Al-Anon to learn about Jesus. It just doesn't seem that difficult to seperate to me. Hugs, Magic

Sorry... please below... thanks. RICHARD

-- Edited by richard at 08:57, 2005-05-02

In response to how Magic expressed, I don't go to a grocery store to get my car fixed when expressing the analogy of speaking of other recovery material during an Alanon share....

I guess that's where I am quite different from most, because if I were in a grocery store and the opportunity presented itself in meeting someone who could fix my car, I would definitely talk about fixing my car and making the arrangments.  Just as if I were anywhere else in the world and an opportunity presented itself to talk about any subject anywhere--- from cars to Jesus to my testimony of my life.

The greatest part of not only my recovery, but the ability to overcome the continued emotions that result from dysfunctional and unhealthy relationships has been the contribution of ALL material and not being limited in one particular group dictating what I can and cannot discuss during my share.

There isn't a day that goes by, nor a moment that goes by that I am not completely grateful for having God first in my life-- with that I am able to recognize that there should be no segregation of anything or anyone in this world, that we are all equal and that rather than deny the thoughts and expressions of other people outside of our realm of understanding, that we are accepting.  After all, we never know the lesson we will learn in hearing others share their innermost emotions and thoughts unrelated to Alanon.  To keep our focus ONLY on Alanon literature limits our ability to utilize all of our resources effectively to allow us to not only continue to recover from what takes our peace from us within, but keeps us dependent on that one and only source because it is our comfort zone. 

Ultimately, to trust our HP is the ONLY way to be CURED completely....   Have ya ever stopped and wondered if our HP ever wants to see how well we could handle being all by ourself should everyone leave our life?  I believe that would be the true test to how much we trust our HP.  Our relationship with HP is the ONLY way to make our lives stable---  Once balance and stability is achieved, everything else falls into place.  Not one organization can do that for you.  We are all in this world together and should be accepting of complete unity. 

 

Proverbs 3:5-6  :)

Hello sanddie, I've been thinking about all you have said and I used to have the same problem in my f2f groups. We do allow people to share whenever they truly are sharing. However, in my f2f groups, more often than not when the subject of religion comes up in a share then the person sharing has just switched from sharing their experience strenght and hope into lecturing the group. It becomes an attempt to control people and change their thinking. As evidenced by their sudden switch to the "you" word. "If you would just do this or did you know Jesus said this or did you know the bible says this?" That is not sharing. And although that is not the way it always happens that is the way it usually happens in my part of the country. People who show up with their bibles are usually tying to change us and the program to suit themselves. That has been my 26 month experience in the f2f meetings I attend. Heck I tried to do it myself and was shot down early. So I think I understand your point. Sooner

I can obviously say that YES, someone who is sharing and says YOU should do something this way or that way, or read this or that is trying to offer resources available for recovery.  When I talk about Jesus or any resource I have available to me  during a share it is to express how that has helped me completely.  Personally, I feel that when someone walks into an Alanon meeting OR any other organized meeting with ONLY their literature to talk about, that is controlling---   With God to support me I am OPEN to ALL resources because He offers that to me while I journey through life.  However, with Alanon, A.A, or any other organization, what  resources are acceptable or open in allowing others to learn and hear recovery stories?  None-- ONLY because it is not approved by an organization!    I know I can walk into a ANY denomination of a church with ANYTHING to share to EVERYONE and be allowed to talk as I wish.

It's a shame that organizations do not do the same.  It keeps people close minded and only focused on the success of their recovery being dependent on only one resource.   Now THAT is control.

Perhaps that explains why people who have been in recovery STAY in recovery throughout their lives-- their lives STAY the same.  Change begins within us and prayer sought through God (as we know God), not by being told what we can and cannot read or share in a particular setting.

Lastly, glory is to be given ONLY to God, not to a person, an organization, or "approved literature".  Only God brings all of these resources into our life.

Something I'm curious about is this.....  If Alanon, or any other organization indicates that we are to give all to God (our HP), and that holds truth in the beliefs of most organizations, then it is pretty clear to me that God should be the FOCUS of any organization, correct?  That being the case, then who are we to say ANYTHING in this world is "approved literature", when God ultimately provides ALL resources to  us?    Why the segregation and limitation of recovery resources if ultimately we turn it over to God (our HP)?

Take Care!

-- Edited by sanddie at 06:53, 2005-05-03

I have no idea what has transpired, however I do know some people will get offended or uncomfortable with any terms of religion. In my humble opinion the term HP should be used and each person can interpret as they choose.

Alanon is not allied with any sect, denomination, political entity, organization or institution, does not engage in any controversy: neither opposes any cause. There are no dues for membership. Alanon is self supporting through its own voluntary contributions.

Alanon has but one purpose: to help familis of alcoholics. We do this by practicing the Twelve Steps, by welcoming and giving comfort to families of alcoholics, and by giving understanding and encouragement to the alcoholic.

Thanks for the explanation sanddie, I would actually have to hear a share of yours to make up my own mind. This is not a good format for that. This is can also be a tough area to call at times. I have seen what happens to a group when this type of sharing gets out of control. Al-Anon (which is what the hour is reserved for) gets so diluted that the entire program falls apart. My best meetings...the ones where I feel the safest...follow the rules. In that hour I am taught the Al-Anon principles for recovery from the effects of alchoholism. That's what Al-Anon is. I have my own recovery stuff that is superior to Al-Aanon but I keep it to my self so as not confuse people. I share it after the meeting if I want to. Thank you for clarifying a bit, where you are. Sooner :)