I guess I just need somewhere to vent - my husband is an a - January of this year he went through a 28 day treatment program, only to start drinking the day he got out. It didn't take long to get back to where we were before. Meanwhile, my hair is falling out, I keep losing weight, my nerves are shot...Then about a month ago, he decided again that he didn't want to live this way anymore - he knew he was on the verge of losing his family, I just couldn't take it anymore.
I swear, I do not want to sound like I am complaining - but this sober man is harder to live with than the drunk one. He is angry ALL of the time, everything I do he has something to say. He hasn't spoken to me in almost a week and I have no idea what in the world I did wrong. Don't know if I care and I just want to scream at him. After everything he has put me through - after all of the times I have been embarrassed by his behavior - after all of the times I have stood by and stood up for him when everyone I knew thought I was insane not to pack up the kids and just leave. What right does he have?
Who knows, I guess this is just some sort of transition - I know he's ashamed of what he has said and done, but why take it out on me? And I don't know if I should tell him this - I don't want to keep rubbing it in. So what do I do?
lin0606 said
Apr 22, 2005
You might find this webpage helpful http://www.lakeweb1.com/mrp/literature/drydrunk.htm
Is your husband in AA or any other kind of recovery program? If so, maybe this will pass, as he starts to truly recover, rather than just 'not drink'.
In any case, you need to take care of yourself now just as much as when he was active. If you can, get to F2F meetings, pamper yourself, do the things that make you happy. He may be in a swamp of unhappiness, but you do NOT have to live down there with him!
wendync said
Apr 22, 2005
I'll take a look at that website - thanks.
No, he's not going to AA - when he was in treatment they went, but not since he's been home. Said it's just a bunch of drunks - yeah, look who's talking...I don't think that just not drinking is the answer.
melanieL said
Apr 22, 2005
Hi really feel for you, my ex-a is currently in AA and is recently sober (well dry anyway) and behaves in exactly the same way. All i can say is your not alone, hold on in there and I am told (well i am praying anyway) that things do get better. He does need to be in some sort of treatment programme though, but regardless, you need to look after yourself and your family , al-anon is great puts the focus back were it belongs on you. I find it very hard to focus on me , but through al-anon is has been getting easier, although you will see from my past postings its not easy.
Take heart, will be thinking and praying for u. Have you read the book "getting them sober" I found this of immense help, well worth reading.
MEL
megan said
Apr 22, 2005
When my A quit drinking last year it was no bed of roses. He still acted as though drunk - the dry drunk. he had no program either. he too had choice words about alanon and AA. But that is HIS PROBLEM
He might even be angry that he can't drink.
He got better mentally during the 5 months as the alcohol drained out of him.
I have another friend whose husband quit drinking without AA and he became 10x meaner than when drunk and she finally left him.
Then he went into AA and started working on himself.
For right now YOU NEED to work on yourself.
Please find a face to face alanon meeting if you can
Gault said
Apr 22, 2005
It's not a question of rights, it's a question of an illness. You thought he was ill when he was drinking. Well, the hard thing to take is the basics haven't changed. He's still ill. Stick to the program, attend meeting, call friens, read ODAT. You know -- all the things you used to do. It takes a l o n g time for things to get better, but they can and often do. I hope this doesn't read too cold. Gault
Mad4stevie said
Apr 22, 2005
My A has also been difficult during brief periods of sobriety.
Because they no longer are able to drown their feelings with alcohol, they actually FEEL them. And without developing healthy coping skills for these feelings, they will just be angry all the time. That is why an ongoing program/counseling is necessary, in my opinion, for them to get well.
At least that is how I try to understand why my A is withdrawn and angry when sober.
mastiff said
Apr 22, 2005
I'm so glad you posted, you are not alone in what you are going through now that's for sure. Another member once gave me a bit of e,s&h on this a little while back. Her wise words told me that often times when an a gets sober and then has a slip, he/she will be looking for a fight. They in a way may be looking for an excuse to make their slip ok. They are hurting, and hurt people, hurt people. The best thing you can do is notlet yourself be his "excuse." You just stick to your program, and know that you dont have to attend every arguement you are invitied too. You don't have to play that game, just put the ball down and walk away from the fight. Detachment with love seems to apply here the most. The most important thing that I have to do in my recovery, is get on with my life. I only have my life to live, and I am powerless over my a and his moods. I get to be happy in my life, even though he at the time might not be happy in his. I can't let him have that power over my and my moods, otherwise i have just turned him into my hp and let him decide my life for me. Lots of love, and hang in there, remember that "this too shall pass" Trina
QnJoan said
Apr 22, 2005
Hi Wendy,
Sobriety is really hard. The alcoholic no longer has that substance to get him numb when he starts to feel his feelings. And he is terrified of those feelings.
My husband has been in recovery for 17 years. I met him at 10 years sober. And he has been active in AA and has worked on his recovery. But he never dealt with the issues that made him the most angry. As he worked more and more on his recovery, he kept getting closer to those issues. And as we got closer in our relationship, he began to be afraid that I would see those issues and judge him. So he got angry. I was shocked. I couldn't figure out what I was doing that was making him so angry! I kept trying to figure out what I was doing wrong and I kept losing my self esteem every time he got mad and yelled at me. After hitting my bottom and getting help, I came to realize that he was mad at himself for his own shame. But it was too hard for him to face that shame himself, so he put it on me. And I, affected by this horrible disease, took it as my own shame. With the help of this program, my sponsor, therapy and my higher power, I came to realize that I did not have to own his stuff. And I did not have to accept his unacceptable behavior that was forcing his stuff on me.
It was very very hard to let him know that I was not accepting his stuff. I had to remember that I didn't have to go to every fight I was invited to. That if I just calmly said to him when he got angry that I couldn't talk with him when he was yelling but we could talk later, and then walk away...then he wouldn't have anyone to fight with. Sometimes, I had to walk away to another room and close the door. Sometimes, I had to leave the house. I had to keep reminding myself that I was not responsible for his anger. My sponsor suggested that I just look at his forehead and see the word " sick" written there. and pray for him when I see that sign.
We were fortunate that he did get help. He started to work with an anger management therapist and he has made much much progress. And I too have made much progress in rebuilding my self esteem. It all started when I just said " no."
He has no right to be angry with you for his own stuff. You are the one who has to make the choice as to whether or not you can let him own his own stuff. It is not an easy path but it is a path that can be travelled with Alanon and a higher power.
Please know that you are in my prayers and I offer you love and peace in the program.
Joan
she123 said
Apr 22, 2005
No-one has the right to steal someone-else's peace of mind. There are times when I still find it difficult to keep the focus on myself and off the A when his behaviour is unacceptable. And that's what it is - totally unacceptable. It's hard to walk away and try to get on with your own life, but that's what I try to do. Walk into another room, go for a drive, phone an Alanon friend. Detach. When I'm angry and I've 'reacted' [which is exactly what my A wants me to do] I still find it hard to detach with love let alone compassion and tolerance but if I am taking care of myself, physically, mentally and spiritually then my head clears and I can rise above the angry words, mood-swings etc.
Alanon is a simple programme, but not easy. We have to work at it every day, one day at a time. Remember Step 1 "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable". Yes we may be powerless over someone else's drinking but we are not powerless over how we allow it to control our lives. Many of us still live with our active alcoholics. I've been with mine for over 40 years. Others choose to leave. Don't forget we all have choices. Keep going to face-to-face meetings and this on-line Group, read CAL [Conference Approved Literature], talk to Alanon friends and in moments of stress, whatever the time of day or wherever you may be - say the Serenity Prayer.
I will pray for you to find courage and peace of mind. Sheila H.
lin0606 said
Apr 22, 2005
Found something else after I posted this morning - I'll try later to figure out how to scan it and put it online, but for now :
"Tools for Detachment" on page 79 of "...In all our Affairs" speaks to exactly this problem. One small quote "I was first reminded that for the alcoholic, drinking is not the problem - it's the solution. Alcohol had served as the source of his security, courage, serenity. Today he is often in a state of panic because he has not yet found other sources for these very real needs."
seachange said
Apr 22, 2005
Hi Wendy! I lived through what you are describing for the best part of eleven years! Married to an active alcolholic who finally, towards the end, agrred to stop drinking. Of course I expected enormous changes right away, but things deteriorated even further because he wasn't going to any meetings, but more important than that, I wasn't either! I know it sounds very strange that you need help at the present time maybe even more than he does, and that's NOT an indictment of you or your attempts to help him. It just means that's where it starts, by getting help for yourself! In time you will be so glad you did, but it takes a lot of trust to show up at an Al-Anon meeting. You will find it a safe haven in which to be exactly where you are with this hell, but there will be doors that open and friends who care if you keep at it. It's a wonderful program, and it works! I can vouch for that! I was a basket-case codependent for many many years, but I have now been in Al-Anon and ACOA for 22 years and like myself and my life now! There's hope!
Start with the first small step...
Seachange
Jeannie said
Apr 22, 2005
Hi Wendy,
It was explained to me a long time ago, that if they just stop drinking they are not actually sober. In fact they may be even harder to live with than when drinking.
They are angry that they are not drinking and feel that the world owes them something for not drinking. It is like they are doing everyone a huge favor because they are not drunk.
They said the difference between sobriety and not drinking is that the truly sober person who is working a program of some type, will appreciate that life is better sober, and be happy and opptemistic wheras the latter is just as miserable or even more so because they are no longer anesthaisized.
Love Jeannie
lin0606 said
Apr 22, 2005
"Tools for Detachment" ("...In All Our Affairs")
"My husband and I did not find a pink cloud when we first got into AA and alanon; we had no honeymoon phase as many seem to. The first two years of sobriety were worse than anything we had during the active drinking. I was in a state of confusion, and did not yet have a handle on the alanon teachings that would prevent my being devastated by his behaviour. He was, for the first and only time in our marriage, verbally abusive beyond belief.
I was first reminded that for the alcoholic, drinking is not the problem - it's the solution. Alcohol had served as the source of his security, courage, serenity. Today he is often in a state of panic becasue he has not yet found other sources for these very real needs.
Alanon does not promise to save marriages, only sanity! If you do want the marriage, they told me, then accept the fact that you will not get healthy behaviour from a sick person or logical statements from an illogical person. This includes me, too. I expected myself to be well immmediately. Now I know that I may never be, but that I will be increasingly better, and I can be gentler with both of us.
I was also reminded that we do not accept the unacceptable, and what is unacceptable varies from person to person. What I could not live with for five minutes, you can perhaps tolerate with good grace, and vice versa.
They said to look at the possibility that I might have a need for a sick marriage. I might have some kind of need to suffer, to be abused, and will manage to bring it about, regardless. I looked hard at this one before I decided it really was not true in my case.
I was especially warned not to walk on eggshells for fear of arousing his wrath during that time. I was told that an alcoholic controls his family by drinking: "Don't do that or Daddy might get drunk." It is small improvement when he begins to control by anger: "Don't do that or Daddy might get mad." We learned that as long as we acted with love and courtesy, his anger was his problem.
All of this was useful, but I needed specific, concrete, how-to-do-it suggestions, and I was given three that really got me through those months:
1. Build an invisible shield between you and him, a shield of love. Use it when the abuse begins, and the words will hit it and roll off without touching you. Visualize it keenly; make it vividly real in your mind.
2. Remember that he is only one or two years old in AA, that he is much like a real baby of that age who slaps out at people who are holding him. We don't slap back. We just hold the baby off far enough that he can't hit us.
3. When he is holding forth with these torrents of vicious words, they told me, picture him saying these things out the window of a mental hospital. Would they hurt then? No, I thought, because I would know he was sick and that they weren't aimed at me personally. They suggested that I mentally draw a window around him whenever this started and detach myself as if he were really hospitalized. It worked amazingly! I can't tell you how many hundreds of times I drew the window around hiim and felt the release that came as a result.
I would not have lived that way indefinitely. Some people do not change; my husband did. It was a phase of his recovery, as there have been other painful phases, and they passed. His sponsor kept saying."It is impossible to attend meetings regularly and never change. Either you will change or you will get so uncomfortable you will quit attending meetings" We did change."
This really is a great book, I often find something I can use in here.
fiona123 said
Apr 23, 2005
Hi wendy
I wanna give you an alanon *HUG* ((((wendy)))
I knew from your post title my answer would be something like " he diesn't ..." so many of us go through this
I am so glad you are in alanon ..it IS the place to find miracles for yo and your kids , and maybe him too IF he wants it
mine got sober in a 30 day ...went to AA for 90 days then did it *on his own* for another 8 yrs
the 1st yr was HELL he is also a RAGE AHOLIC
when i read my journals from those years u cant BELIEVE I WASTED MY LIFE ttrying to love this man to health
he never wanted it
it was ME who wanted health and love and balance and respect
eventually i got them , but not from HIM *sighs*
he was a dry drunk for 8- 9 yrs ( jekyl & hyde) and finally drank in the open with a VENGEANCE with VENON he drank AT me
his drinking ruined our life andi some times feel i WASTED MY LIFE
quite literally
i spent 18 yrs spinning around him
the years i was in alanon 86-92 i did better for myself
then i got as sick as he was
i wont go on & on
will just say WELCOME and I HOPE you stick with alanon for YOU , stick around long enuf to find the miracles that ARE waiting to happen in your life
I guess I just need somewhere to vent - my husband is an a - January of this year he went through a 28 day treatment program, only to start drinking the day he got out. It didn't take long to get back to where we were before. Meanwhile, my hair is falling out, I keep losing weight, my nerves are shot...Then about a month ago, he decided again that he didn't want to live this way anymore - he knew he was on the verge of losing his family, I just couldn't take it anymore.
I swear, I do not want to sound like I am complaining - but this sober man is harder to live with than the drunk one. He is angry ALL of the time, everything I do he has something to say. He hasn't spoken to me in almost a week and I have no idea what in the world I did wrong. Don't know if I care and I just want to scream at him. After everything he has put me through - after all of the times I have been embarrassed by his behavior - after all of the times I have stood by and stood up for him when everyone I knew thought I was insane not to pack up the kids and just leave. What right does he have?
Who knows, I guess this is just some sort of transition - I know he's ashamed of what he has said and done, but why take it out on me? And I don't know if I should tell him this - I don't want to keep rubbing it in. So what do I do?
I'll take a look at that website - thanks.
No, he's not going to AA - when he was in treatment they went, but not since he's been home. Said it's just a bunch of drunks - yeah, look who's talking...I don't think that just not drinking is the answer.
Hi really feel for you, my ex-a is currently in AA and is recently sober (well dry anyway) and behaves in exactly the same way. All i can say is your not alone, hold on in there and I am told (well i am praying anyway) that things do get better. He does need to be in some sort of treatment programme though, but regardless, you need to look after yourself and your family , al-anon is great puts the focus back were it belongs on you. I find it very hard to focus on me , but through al-anon is has been getting easier, although you will see from my past postings its not easy.
Take heart, will be thinking and praying for u. Have you read the book "getting them sober" I found this of immense help, well worth reading.
MEL
When my A quit drinking last year it was no bed of roses. He still acted as though drunk - the dry drunk. he had no program either. he too had choice words about alanon and AA. But that is HIS PROBLEM
He might even be angry that he can't drink.
He got better mentally during the 5 months as the alcohol drained out of him.
I have another friend whose husband quit drinking without AA and he became 10x meaner than when drunk and she finally left him.
Then he went into AA and started working on himself.
For right now YOU NEED to work on yourself.
Please find a face to face alanon meeting if you can
It's not a question of rights, it's a question of an illness. You thought he was ill when he was drinking. Well, the hard thing to take is the basics haven't changed. He's still ill. Stick to the program, attend meeting, call friens, read ODAT. You know -- all the things you used to do. It takes a l o n g time for things to get better, but they can and often do. I hope this doesn't read too cold. Gault
My A has also been difficult during brief periods of sobriety.
Because they no longer are able to drown their feelings with alcohol, they actually FEEL them. And without developing healthy coping skills for these feelings, they will just be angry all the time. That is why an ongoing program/counseling is necessary, in my opinion, for them to get well.
At least that is how I try to understand why my A is withdrawn and angry when sober.
I'm so glad you posted, you are not alone in what you are going through now that's for sure. Another member once gave me a bit of e,s&h on this a little while back. Her wise words told me that often times when an a gets sober and then has a slip, he/she will be looking for a fight. They in a way may be looking for an excuse to make their slip ok. They are hurting, and hurt people, hurt people. The best thing you can do is notlet yourself be his "excuse." You just stick to your program, and know that you dont have to attend every arguement you are invitied too. You don't have to play that game, just put the ball down and walk away from the fight. Detachment with love seems to apply here the most. The most important thing that I have to do in my recovery, is get on with my life. I only have my life to live, and I am powerless over my a and his moods. I get to be happy in my life, even though he at the time might not be happy in his. I can't let him have that power over my and my moods, otherwise i have just turned him into my hp and let him decide my life for me. Lots of love, and hang in there, remember that "this too shall pass" Trina
Hi Wendy,
Sobriety is really hard. The alcoholic no longer has that substance to get him numb when he starts to feel his feelings. And he is terrified of those feelings.
My husband has been in recovery for 17 years. I met him at 10 years sober. And he has been active in AA and has worked on his recovery. But he never dealt with the issues that made him the most angry. As he worked more and more on his recovery, he kept getting closer to those issues. And as we got closer in our relationship, he began to be afraid that I would see those issues and judge him. So he got angry. I was shocked. I couldn't figure out what I was doing that was making him so angry! I kept trying to figure out what I was doing wrong and I kept losing my self esteem every time he got mad and yelled at me. After hitting my bottom and getting help, I came to realize that he was mad at himself for his own shame. But it was too hard for him to face that shame himself, so he put it on me. And I, affected by this horrible disease, took it as my own shame. With the help of this program, my sponsor, therapy and my higher power, I came to realize that I did not have to own his stuff. And I did not have to accept his unacceptable behavior that was forcing his stuff on me.
It was very very hard to let him know that I was not accepting his stuff. I had to remember that I didn't have to go to every fight I was invited to. That if I just calmly said to him when he got angry that I couldn't talk with him when he was yelling but we could talk later, and then walk away...then he wouldn't have anyone to fight with. Sometimes, I had to walk away to another room and close the door. Sometimes, I had to leave the house. I had to keep reminding myself that I was not responsible for his anger. My sponsor suggested that I just look at his forehead and see the word " sick" written there. and pray for him when I see that sign.
We were fortunate that he did get help. He started to work with an anger management therapist and he has made much much progress. And I too have made much progress in rebuilding my self esteem. It all started when I just said " no."
He has no right to be angry with you for his own stuff. You are the one who has to make the choice as to whether or not you can let him own his own stuff. It is not an easy path but it is a path that can be travelled with Alanon and a higher power.
Please know that you are in my prayers and I offer you love and peace in the program.
Joan
No-one has the right to steal someone-else's peace of mind. There are times when I still find it difficult to keep the focus on myself and off the A when his behaviour is unacceptable. And that's what it is - totally unacceptable. It's hard to walk away and try to get on with your own life, but that's what I try to do. Walk into another room, go for a drive, phone an Alanon friend. Detach. When I'm angry and I've 'reacted' [which is exactly what my A wants me to do] I still find it hard to detach with love let alone compassion and tolerance but if I am taking care of myself, physically, mentally and spiritually then my head clears and I can rise above the angry words, mood-swings etc.
Alanon is a simple programme, but not easy. We have to work at it every day, one day at a time. Remember Step 1 "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable". Yes we may be powerless over someone else's drinking but we are not powerless over how we allow it to control our lives. Many of us still live with our active alcoholics. I've been with mine for over 40 years. Others choose to leave. Don't forget we all have choices. Keep going to face-to-face meetings and this on-line Group, read CAL [Conference Approved Literature], talk to Alanon friends and in moments of stress, whatever the time of day or wherever you may be - say the Serenity Prayer.
I will pray for you to find courage and peace of mind. Sheila H.
Hi Wendy! I lived through what you are describing for the best part of eleven years! Married to an active alcolholic who finally, towards the end, agrred to stop drinking. Of course I expected enormous changes right away, but things deteriorated even further because he wasn't going to any meetings, but more important than that, I wasn't either! I know it sounds very strange that you need help at the present time maybe even more than he does, and that's NOT an indictment of you or your attempts to help him. It just means that's where it starts, by getting help for yourself! In time you will be so glad you did, but it takes a lot of trust to show up at an Al-Anon meeting. You will find it a safe haven in which to be exactly where you are with this hell, but there will be doors that open and friends who care if you keep at it. It's a wonderful program, and it works! I can vouch for that! I was a basket-case codependent for many many years, but I have now been in Al-Anon and ACOA for 22 years and like myself and my life now! There's hope!
Start with the first small step...
Seachange
Hi Wendy,
It was explained to me a long time ago, that if they just stop drinking they are not actually sober. In fact they may be even harder to live with than when drinking.
They are angry that they are not drinking and feel that the world owes them something for not drinking. It is like they are doing everyone a huge favor because they are not drunk.
They said the difference between sobriety and not drinking is that the truly sober person who is working a program of some type, will appreciate that life is better sober, and be happy and opptemistic wheras the latter is just as miserable or even more so because they are no longer anesthaisized.
Love Jeannie
Hi wendy
I wanna give you an alanon *HUG* ((((wendy)))
I knew from your post title my answer would be something like " he diesn't ..." so many of us go through this
I am so glad you are in alanon ..it IS the place to find miracles for yo and your kids , and maybe him too IF he wants it
mine got sober in a 30 day ...went to AA for 90 days then did it *on his own* for another 8 yrs
the 1st yr was HELL he is also a RAGE AHOLIC
when i read my journals from those years u cant BELIEVE I WASTED MY LIFE ttrying to love this man to health
he never wanted it
it was ME who wanted health and love and balance and respect
eventually i got them , but not from HIM
*sighs*
he was a dry drunk for 8- 9 yrs ( jekyl & hyde) and finally drank in the open with a VENGEANCE with VENON he drank AT me
his drinking ruined our life andi some times feel i WASTED MY LIFE
quite literally
i spent 18 yrs spinning around him
the years i was in alanon 86-92 i did better for myself
then i got as sick as he was
i wont go on & on
will just say WELCOME and I HOPE you stick with alanon for YOU , stick around long enuf to find the miracles that ARE waiting to happen in your life
Love in recovery !
Fiona