JUST HAD A CONVERSATION WITH MY EX-A, HE USUALLY HAS THE CHILDREN EVERY OTHER WEEKEND.  HE NOW STATES HE IS NOT SURE IF HE CAN HAVE MY 15 YEAR OLD TO STAY AT WEEKENDS NOW, HE SAYS SHE IS MORE THAT HE CAN COPE WITH AND IT WILL HINDER HIS RECOVERY.  I KNOW THIS IS IMPORTANT, BUT HOW DO I TELL HER HE DOESNOT WANT HER TO STAY ANYMORE, SHE ALREADY HAS COUNSELLING . ALSO WHAT ABOUT ME, DONT I DESERVE A BREAK.  HE ALSO SAID  MY OTHER TWO WHO ARE 6 AND 11 PLAY UP HE WONT HAVE THEM ANYMORE EITHER.  HIS RECOVERY COMES FIRST.  FEEL REALLY ANGRY AT THE MO, EVEN THOUGH I KNOW A DRUNK FATHER IS NO USE TO THEM AND IF HE CAN REMAIN SOBER THEN ALL THE BETTER, BUT WHAT ABOUT HIS RESPONSIBILITY THEY ARE HIS CHILDREN AS WELL.

Just hang in there my friend.  I know how hard it can be to have children with 2 different homes.  I cant give you advice on your specific situation, but I can tell you what I have done with my simular one.  I have 3 children, 1 one which is from a previous marriage.  He too go's back and forth between the two homes, but is mainly with me.  Lately his father has been skipping weekends, not showing up for important events ect.  At first I was so angry at him.  I wanted to show him how wonderful our child is, how much he needs his father, how important he is too him.  I would get so upset by the situation, that I lost my focus.  Today, I try very hard (but sometimes slip I must admit) to realize that I am the lucky one.  I am the one that gets to wake him up in the morning, bond over homework, play catch with, and just enjoy the little giggles and smiles he sends my way... he is a gift from god, and if my ex doesn't appriciate that gift, that is his loss. As for me, I'm lovin every minute of it.  I try very hard to not involve our son in the dilemma of the his parents relationship. I keep it real simple in his eyes, tell him what he needs to know. Even with my children I have to remember to say what I mean, mean what I say, and don't say it mean.  I will not lie for my ex, but I wont hurt my son in the process.  I simply tell him that his father loves him very much, and I'm sorry that he let him down.  Then I will try to find something that will make him feel loved by us, and just go on with our lives.  I to get frusterated that he gets to decide if and when he wants to be a parent, but that is his inventory, and I am not responsible for it.  As long as I can keep my focus on me, I can learn to grow from the situation, and ultimately come out a stronger person/parent.  Hope that helped a little

Lots of love, Trina

I too would like someone to answer this question.  My husband is currently in rehab--3rd week--of a 30 day program.  I have 2 toddlers that I am currently providing 24/7 care.  I feel like he has no concern for when he gets discharged or what the plan is for after discharge.  AA and alanon people say to let him do whatever he needs to "recover"  my friends and family say he needs to accept responsibility for myself and his children.  I agree that recovery is important but I think they need to fulfill their obligations too.  He's at the Betty Ford Center and they seem not to give a crap about us at home.  My husband is the babysitter when I work and I have no backup plan.  I'm so disgusted at the moment that I can't stand it.  My husband and I have been arguing on the phone and we only get a few phone calls on the weekend.  I told him not to call this weekend because I can't stand to hear his lack of concern for his family---"if I  don't get better nothing else will matter".  Imho this is a copout from his responsibilities at home----he's not working right now--was working prior to rehab---how does he think we will survive financially??  Doesn't worry him at all!!

Help!

mom to 2

 

Hi Melanie, this is a selfish disease and it is always about them. drunk or sober. I wouldn't tell your daughter what he has said,if thats a problem with him he should speak to her himself. Maybe ask her if she wants to visit him , could be she doesn't enjoy it anyway and would like the option of saying "no" she didn't want to go for the weekend.  I hope he stops complaining and enjoys his children but there is nothing u can do about that either. this is his problem not yours to solve.   good luck  Louise

To MOM

My ex ( we were together 17  yrs ..he drank the first 6 , got sober for 9 and he drank the last 2 , then divorce)

I used to care for my ex's 2 kids ...for years when he was drunk we would have them on the weekends and in the summer .

He went to treatment in New Hampshire ....this place had a councelor I could talk to

and i DID .... I was on the phone w/ them a LOT ..maybe I ammoyed them and frankly I dont care

His disease had damned near killed ME and damaged the psyches of his 2 girls ( then 10 & 14)

THis place had FAMILY WEEK ....in the last week of the 30 days ... the FAMILY ( or spouse if you feel kids are too little)  go for 4 days and the staff works with the families

Does your place HAVE FAMILY week? ( or days ) its not just summer camp or visiting ..it is education and HELP for you ALL

It changed our lives  If they have it ....maybe you can impress upon  the people who love you that HIS disease BECAME a FAMILY disease and so yo need to go to this ... and hopefully they will all do what ever they can to pool thier resources to get you there ....help you w/ $ babysitting ect

Explain to them that your kids need  you & your hubby to be a healthy untited front to raise the kids healthy and strong

I alsi urge you to go to as much alanon as possible

Over the years , i have seen many happy couples who are BOTH in recovery ...often the A in AA and the spouse , here in alanon. This will put you on the "same page" w/ him....

I used to go to an alanon meeting in a hall where there were over 200 recovering As and   20 !  20  spouses in the  back  :(       ............                       the As would envy the ones like my husband who had alanon program support

but also ... alanon is for YOU  dear , it will help you cope with the ups and downs of new recovery

Try to remember that drinking to a drunk is NORMAL .... taking that away from them feels ABnormal .....so for a while  a newly sober person feels like a stranger in a strange land ....

I hope we will be seeing you in alanon

I have walked the walk you now walk , and I will pray for you

Love in recovery

Fiona123

-- Edited by fiona123 at 13:00, 2005-04-21

PS

BETTY FORD ? ....I would thnk they would be VERY hip to the family week

and alanon family healing

I would get right on the phone and ask to speak to the family advocate

if $ is an issue , you can buy pre paid callingf cards at gas stations for long distance , they make the calls about 3 cents a minute

Good luk , keep us posted

Fiona,

Thank you!  They do have a family week but I am unable to attend due to the fact that I live in New Jersey and he's in California--another issue I feel resentment about.  He did not include me in his choice of rehab and I am unable to leave my children for a week (ages 3 and 1)---they have never slept anywhere but home---and I can't bring them with me.   But really I can't afford it either.  It's $21,000 to go to Betty Ford---which my "darling" put on a credit card.

He will be reimbursed $12,000 from insurance, he says.  I have discussed alternatives to their family program ie:going somewhere closer for myself.  His counselor has yet to get back to me on  that issue, said he would look into it.  I really feel like the counselors only look out for him.  They just tell me to take care of myself, don't worry about him.  How is it possible to not worry about your future??  If we don't stay together we have to sell the house and I will have to change jobs as I work at night---I don't know what is going to happen.  At this point my husband and I are not speaking.  I left a message for his counselor that I did not want my husband to call me anymore and the counselor has not called back to discuss the issues.  You know, I think they are kind of pissed that I'm not attending the family program---think I am just making excuses.  I will admit that in the begining I did not want to attend, but I do want to and they know that now---but they don't seem to be flexible.  I refuse to believe I am the only person from the east coast unable to attend.

I hope you guys don't think I'm crazy for saying this but I feel like he's a little "brainwashed" at this point.  Throwing out "recovery" terms, but how much of it does he really understand.  I think he's comfortable there and afraid to come home but he won't say that.  I guess I'll leave a message, yet again, for his couselor and hopefully talk to him----I know that I get on his nerves and we've argued already too.

Thank you again---

mom to 2

Hi,

My husband was in an intensive outpatient program last summer. I remember being very angry with the counselor he had there. He was telling me that he should have no responsibilities and a stress free life. He told me she said I needed anger management. He said she said the blame was all mine and his parents and him where the victims.

When I did speak to her, I was very angry. She explained to me that he had interpreted the things she said in his own way. I demanded a family session. The air was cleared a bit. But she did make it clear to me that in her opinion the kids and I and our recovery where not my husbands or her concern. That her primary concern was getting him and keeping him sober,our issues where up to us. She said as he progressed in recovery there would be time for the family to heal if that is the way it was meant to be.

She did say that in the beginning he was to avoid all responsibility and stress and triggers, anything that could hinder his sobriety. She also believed he should live with his parents as they would make life easier on him than living with a wife and 6 children. She did say his recovery has to come first as everything else is nothing without it.

Hope this helps.

                      Love jeannie

Looks like two different threads going here now, but I guess they are both about how much do we let someone in new recovery get away with. If your A had just had surgery, how much leeway would you feel was justified while he recovered? How much time would you feel was reasonable for him to devote to his getting back on his feet again? For many A's those first few weeks of sobriety are very shaky, they feel extremely fragile, and really DO need to concentrate on themselves for a while. When my husband first sobered up, I was so happy at first "At last, I thought, it will be like a real marriage, where I can share my needs, and get some help - I won't have to be the only grown-up around here anymore!" Well, it didn't really work out that way. He went from focusing all his strength and energy on getting drunk and high, to focusing it all on staying sober. There still was not much left for me, and such boring stuff as childcare, chores, etc. I began to get resentful. However, with the help of alanon, I began to see a way to balance my needs with his. The reality is, he was not much help to me drunk, and he would have been no good at all dead, which was where he was heading. Eventually, I was able to learn to ask for what I needed, without feelings of resentment, or what was OWED me. Instead, it has become "What do I need right now, today, to feel good about myself, him, and the kids?" I really hope both of you are able to get to lots of F2F meetings, and have lots of alanon literature around, He is focusing right now on HIS recovery - let him. You can focus on your own, take care of yourself. Anything you can do to improve your OWN state of mind will only be good for the children. The important thing is that those children feel loved and cared for, without you being run into the ground. Where that love and care comes from is not as important as that it be there, when needed. If you have other support networks, this is the time to use them. I hope this makes sense - I am trying to say that fretting over what he does or does not do is no more useful now, in early sobriety, than it was when he was drunk. Find the help you need, live as happily as you can, no matter what he does.

Jeannie,

Wow---his counselor told me that I seemed angry.  Well, duh!  Of course we have anger.  I know an A is an A---but my husband is or was a binge drinker--so 90% of the time he was fulfilling his responsibility---right now it's 0%.  I guess the hope is for the marriage to improve in the end.  I he would have done this 5 years ago before the children he could have had all the time in the world to focus on himself and I could have worked overtime to make up for his lost wages.  But---it's not 5 years ago and childcare is a severe issue for us---in that we don't have any.  My mil is helping but she is not well and it's really exhausting her and it's not a permanent arrangement. 

The reality is that I'm alone right now and so worried about the future.  My children are my world and I will do anything to keep them happy and healthy.  One way or another it will work out---I guess.  I am still waiting for the counselor to call and see if he has any suggestions, as my husband and I are barely speaking now.  My husband said I wasn't being as supportive as the other wives----oddly that didn't make me feel bad.  He made choices--these are consequences.  I don't want to be a sucker.

Thank you so much--everyone---it's so helpful to know others have some of the same issues and to hear some advice offered.

mom to 2

Mom 0f2

I'm sorry when I reread my post it sounds like I was condoning his actions and agreeing with the councilor. I'm not on both counts.

When I was posting I looked at the clock and realized I had to get back to work, so I rushed to finish. I'm sorry.

My husband didn't continue after the program. They did tell him to attend AA, but he stopped after a few weeks and started drinking again not too long after that.

I agree with you aout choices. But the way I looked at it, it was his choices and my consequences. I already had a full plate and him taking even less responsibility dumped even more on me.

I know I am supposed to take care of me, but when you have a family and we have 6 children ages 1 to 18 there is a lot of responsibility and it has to fall on someone. There are things children require, food a roof over their heads clothing etc. Not to mention, dinner time, baths, homework and the like.

Most of this always fell on me, but I felt that the rehab believed he should only worry about himself (which he reminded me often) so it all fell on me.

Your are also right about being angry. We have every right to be angry, and tired. Marreiage is supposed to be a partnership and an alcoholic whether drinking or not, doesn't keep up their part of it.

Believe me you are not alone.

                                       Love Jeannie

Now if this were me, I would not have him take any of my kids. What kind of values is he teaching them? Also ignoring your responsibilities is not part of a healthy recovery program. My first thought was, well we cannot change others so why say anything. So get someone to stay at your house with them, or take them to someone. Yes you do need time for you. I was a widow the whole time I raised my two kids. NO way would I allow them to go to the A. My son was a living mans son who ignored him. His disease was so awful I got a restraining order. I hope you don't tell your daughter anything. It could really damage her. Kids are not toys to be thrown away when people are tired of them, or when they become older and harder to control. I am a very strong child advocate. I have seen the damage that can happen here. I would keep it light and calm. When they usually go with him, plan day trips. I used to take mine to the fish hatchery or the mountains, we went and got an ice cream cone, went to the beach. Does not have to be expensive. Please protect you and you precious babies from this horrible disease. Love,debilyn

Jeannie,

Your post did not sound unsupportive or condoning of his actions.  I know exactly what you were saying.  I think we're all in agreement that they should accept responsibility.  That being said they may lack the ability even in sobriety.  That's hard to contemplate when so many of us have dreamed of the day they stopped drinking.  It's just such a mess sometimes.

Melanie, I'm sorry this post turned into my rant.  But I feel you are in the same boat, but your children are older and I think that's even harder.  My oldest is only 3 and he seems to have no concept of time regarding how long his daddy has been gone. 

I have yet to receive a return call from the counselor---is he avoiding me??  I hope not.  I have no idea when my husband will be discharged or if he will come home...Jeannie, I can't believe you had to do this with 6 children.  You're absolutely right, with all the responsibility that falls our way it's hard to focus on us.  I have to say, I'm enjoying my children every second, they are true blessings and I really think my husband is the loser in this scenario---I don't mean loser but that he missing out on the fun.  Maybe he will come back and be a better person---I'm really scared he's going to come back more selfish than before!  Scary stuff.

thanks again

mom to 2

Reading all the posts was a revelation - I've been there, too. It seems to me the key word here is EXPECTATIONS. When I was EXPECTING my ex-A to be responsible, I was disappointed, and ended up being resentful and angry. Tone down the expectations, and the whole thing becomes a non-issue. Now, when he shows up, he shows up. When he takes the kids, the kids get to spend time with their dad. And if they spend the entire weekend in front of a video game, so be it. I cannot MAKE him be the kind of loving, attentive dad I want for my children. When the expectations stop, the merry-go-round unwinds. I also did what Debilyn suggested - have something planned. Don't put the kids out there for dad to hurt them yet again, but also don't make excuses - he is what he is. Kids have an amazing amount of compassion (even for us non-alcoholic parents!). Now, I work on me. And I work on raising my children as best I can, to be healthy, happy loving people. My thoughts and prayers are with you as you work through this. I know the early stages of single parenting were overwhelming for me. There are some great readings on Expectations in the Al-Anon literature - it may help. Take care. Tchee

Hi

 

Thank you all for your replies.  I am in the UK so thats why is taken so long for me to reply.  My husband like Mom's was/is a binge drinker so most of the time he is capable of caring for them.  I have no family support whatsoever and totally on my own, which I find overwelming sometimes.  My daughter has a lot of issues with her Dad and this really isnt going to help things.  I did tell him eventually that he should tell her himself, it is his decision and his responsibilty and subsequently he is now not talking to me, he did ring her this morning and say as she was going to be looking after our two other children for him tonight while he attends a meeting could she also look after his friends children.  So its ok for her to stay as long as she is doing things for him!  Trying to remain calm .

HE NOW STATES HE IS NOT SURE IF HE CAN HAVE MY 15 YEAR OLD TO STAY AT WEEKENDS NOW, HE SAYS SHE IS MORE THAT HE CAN COPE WITH AND IT WILL HINDER HIS RECOVERY.  

First, in your statement, he didn't say he didn't want her.  He stated that he couldn't cope for now.  That doesn't sound permanent.  Remember we don't look down that road of hope/despair.  We just look at what we got today.  So if he was going thru chemotherapy & said his statement, would it affect you the same way?

BUT HOW DO I TELL HER HE DOESNOT WANT HER TO STAY ANYMORE, SHE ALREADY HAS COUNSELLING .

He didn't say he didn't want her to stay anymore, he said he couldn't cope for the moment while in this state of recovery.  Ask your hub, does he still love her, care about her, & want her.  If so, he should tell her, or you tell her that.  Then just tell her that her not visiting has nothing to do with his love for her.  Use the chemotherapy approach with your daughter.   This will take the "he doesn't want me" off the table & put on the table "he's sick @ the moment & must deal with only it".  You can't force it, but you can suggest he write to her, email her, send pictures, calls.  Even if he doesn't write/call, you can suggest she write to him.  She could think of it as writing/emailing a sick person too sick to respond but that he'd enjoy the thoughts & company she'd send his way.  That he'd most likely read it, but not have the energy to return.  Therefore, she can express her feelings & what goes on in her life, without disappointments because she would not expect returns from him.  It would be like venting.  All this applies to all of your children. 

I try to teach my 2 boys that it is better to be on the end of giving, then to be on the end of needing. 

ALSO WHAT ABOUT ME, DONT I DESERVE A BREAK.  HIS RECOVERY COMES FIRST.  FEEL REALLY ANGRY AT THE MO, EVEN THOUGH I KNOW A DRUNK FATHER IS NO USE TO THEM AND IF HE CAN REMAIN SOBER THEN ALL THE BETTER, BUT WHAT ABOUT HIS RESPONSIBILITY THEY ARE HIS CHILDREN AS WELL.  

You do deserve a break!  Get one where you won't have to worry about the care giver being drunk, or not up to the physical & mental demands of children.  Hire a babysitter, try the church(if you have one), pay your 15 year old to watch the other 2, or pay your 15 year old in favors if money is scarce (like extra priviledges), ask in/laws or family.  It seems to me that if he's in recovery & is already stating he can't cope, why put your children in that situation?  Another way to get a break is take a day vacation or two with the kids if you can't get away yourself. 

Of course, he may be b.s. & shirking his duties.  But that's a fine line to walk.  He may be telling the truth.  I wouldn't tell the kids he doesn't want them.  If it's true over time it'll show, the kids will figure it out by themselves, & you won't look like the bad gal for putting him down. 

I know what your feeling.  I raised my kid with his learning disabilities, while I was VERY sick over 2 years.  My x didn't do anything for me, or for his kid, no xmas cards, no birthday present, no visits, no call, not even pay.   It is hard, you do get angry, but try turning it around.  Take your children to people who can handle them, love them, nuture them.  

Mastiff & Abbyal had great posts.  I didn't have time to read the rest of the post, so I'm not saying the rest aren't any good, just didn't read them. 

-- Edited by De Anna at 10:02, 2005-04-22

-- Edited by De Anna at 10:11, 2005-04-22