hi everyone :)  i've been lurking around this board for about a week now, and i'm ready to post.  it seems like every time i try, my computer crashes, but i'm in a computer lab right now, so hopefully that won't happen...*knock on wood*...hehehe

my name's amy, and my fiance' is a recovering alcoholic.  his problem has been on and off over a period of about 10 years.  he moved away from home at an early age to go to detroit's recording institute, at about 17 years of age.  the band he was in at the time looked like it was going to become successful, but due to the heroine addiction of the band's drummer, they dissolved.  he stayed in touch with the band's guitarist and one of his oldest, closest friends, we'll just call him mike.  mike is a great guy, but a big drinker.  him and my fiance' would collaborate on musical things over the years from time to time, and would get so drunk together.  my fiance' also living on his own before he was really ready, got caught up in drinking culture.  he played at bars a lot, and most of the time the staff at the bars would let him drink, despite being underaged.  he got bad and worse, and one day he was caught and put in jail for underage drinking.  he stopped for a few years after that happened, but then started up again.  this was way before i knew him.  he is 29 years old now. 

his drinking was very much an on and off thing.  i know a lot of his problem has to do with losing his mother at the age of 9.  she had a brain tumor the size of a baseball and went into a coma which she was in for almost 13 years.  she didn't have a living will, so there was no choice but to keep her going until she eventually passed away on her own, in the year 2000.  while she was in the coma, his father remarried, which was really sad and really hard for him and his sister.

anyway, fast forward some years, to about 3 years ago, and he was caught driving drunk.  this was also before we became a couple.  his blood alcohol level was the most minimum it would have to be to be considered legally drunk.  since he'd had a prior alcohol conviction, he was jailed for 4 months.  he was originally scheduled for 6, but got out on good behavior.  he went to AA meetings and was sober for almost a year.

then he met this girl on the internet who he had a brief tryst with.  i'll call her michelle.  she persuaded him to move to canada to be with her, and having really nowhere else to go, he decided to give that a shot.  it lasted two weeks.  he came back to the states and his dad helped him get an apartment and get settled in and helped him get a new job.

he managed his new life on his own for a short time, but began drinking again after hanging out with his old friend mike, and was in and out of jobs all the time.  his two closest friends there, i'll call them jessica and aaron, were really concerned about him and his well-being and basically took care of him.  since he'd been in jail for drinking, he didn't have his license, and they would both help him out a lot and take him to the store so he could get groceries and stuff.

we met because his brother lives in my town, and we met when he was down for a visit.  we hit it off immediately, almost.  it was like magic, like fairytales where you read about people meeting and falling in love at first sight.  i had no idea he had a drinking problem.  he didn't seem like the kind of person who'd have an addiction.  he's so smart and sweet and articulate and just interesting all around.  i had met my soul mate.  i still feel this way about him, too.

we continued our long distance relationship, and i had no idea there was a drinking problem because he lived so far away and when we talked, he was always sober as could be.  we decided that he could move in with me after his lease at his apartment was up.  he did.  that's when i finally knew he had a problem.

for a year i put up with it.  sort of.  for a year i just let him do it.  i'd just make sure my friends weren't going to come around when he was drunk.  i could handle him pretty well.  for the most part he was still a sweetie when he was drunk.  i was more concerned about his health than anything.  i'd talk with his friend aaron about how i was worried about it and about us.  aaron was a good contact to have because he knew my A's history and all the stuff he'd been through.  we would lean on each other when we were angry, frustrated, or sad about the whole thing.

the day after our one year anniversary, he bought a bottle of wine and was sipping it.  he had a couple drinks, then he went downstairs in our apartment building to do some laundry.  he heard that some of the neighbors we are kinda friendly with were having a raucous party.  he knocked on the door and they invited him in.  i noticed he was gone for awhile, and so i went downstairs and could hear his voice coming out of the door of their apartment.  so i went in as well and joined in the fun.  he gave me this death-look like he didn't want me to be there.  long story short, he got super drunk at the party, then accused me of being clingy and following him around all night.  he was really mean to me, said the most horrible things which i thought he was never capable of saying, and threatened to commit suicide by jumping off our balcony.  i grabbed him by the shirt and slapped his face just to try to snap him out of the rampage he was going on.  he slapped me back a few times, then stormed out the door.  now, he was incoherantly drunk, so me and a neighbor walked around the neighborhood frantically looking for him.  i just didn't want him to be hurt or get himself killed!  i was worried that i'd either never see him again or something would happen to him, and that our last words to each other would be fighting ones.

anyway, i got back home and he was there.  he continued to berate me for several more hours.  i was so upset and broken down that i just sat there in fetal position crying my eyes out.  he passed out finally, then he woke up after sleeping for about an hour.  he was sobered up enough now to be reasonable.  i told him everything that happened and he didn't even remember doing any of it.  i was so angry and upset with him that i told him we either get some outside help, or we're done.  i was never going to let him treat me like that EVER again.  i didn't deserve it and no one does!  i was so mad.  i got two hours of sleep, then i had to go to work and work all day being sad and upset and crying, and i didn't want to tell anyone why.

when i got home he was waiting for me and we talked.  he made a first step and said he did want to stop drinking but that he couldn't do it all at once.  he did promise never to drink in front of me again, however.  he said he'd only drink when he was with friends and away from me.  with the exception of two relapses, he has kept that promise.  and the two times he relapsed, he was decent to me.

he now says he only wants to drink once a month.  so he doesn't want to totally quit, but he is making the effort to cut down.  it's not an everyday thing anymore.  he even said he feels better and healthier since he stopped being an everyday drinker.  

tomorrow is our year-and-a-half anniversary, and he has only drank twice since that last incident.  i'm very proud of him and the progress he's made.  i'm willing to be patient.  i did tell him that i have one condition, though.  i will never have children with someone who is a drinker, period.  so in order for us to have a family, he can never drink again.  he says he wants that to be a goal for him one day.  our wedding is even going to be a sober wedding.  no booze allowed at our wedding.  sparkling grape juice for all! :)  but i will not have babies if he continues to even drink just once in awhile.

so that is my story.  our relationship is very happy right now, and we get along great.  i think what has helped is that i've been so supportive through all this.  he knows he has a problem and wants to stop completely one day.  hopefully he will get there. 

Welcome Amy, and Keep Coming Back!  I think it's great that you are aware that your fiance has an alcohol problem.  Awareness is very important to taking care of ourselves and gaining the wisdom and knowledge we need to have about the disease of alcoholism.   You know what the problem is, and I hope you will find Alanon meetings in your area to attend, not try to face this disease alone.  Alanon will help you learn your part, and how to take care of you.

With wisdom, intuition and knowledge we can make the right decisions for ourselves and our lives.  Check back here later, others will leave their experience, strength and hope ! 

Alcoholism is a progressive disease that is never cured, just arrested.  Many alcoholics somehow stay sober for weeks or months and everything's great (until the Next Bender).  The pamphlet Merry Go Round Named Denial is availble at Alanon meetings which is very helpful.

You may want to do some reading on the progression of the disease by typing in:  Jellinek Chart    in a search engine such as  www.altavista.com  

Also, www.bendfeldt.com/alcholism.htm  (note spelling)   [Merry Go Round Named Denial]

Easy Does It... this is a lot to absorb, but well worth it!

Hiya :)

I also see red flags and the story resembles my own.  I can't and shouldn't advise you, so I will tell you my story and hope you get some insght from it before marrying.

When I met my husband, it was the same chemistry, he was witty, smart and very handsome.  He treated me like a queen, always considerate to me and my needs.

He lived in MI and I in IN at the time, so we did the long distance thing too (which was only about 50 miles).  We would go out, party together, bar hop..the things people do while dating.  I thought nothing of it.

Eventually, 2 yrs later, I moved to MI (which was actually home for me).  We moved in together and it went pretty well, except he would stop at the bar every night after work.  He was always home for dinner, so it wasn' a huge deal.  On the weekends, he would start drinking about noon, make an excuse to to go "see the guys" and come home several hours later and sleep the rest of the day and night away.

Fast forward a couple yrs, by now I know he has a problem.  He has asked me to marry him and I told him when the drinking stops, I'd love to.  The drinking stopped for a bout 6 months and we were married.  The next day after, he celebrated with "the guys".  It hasn't stopped since.  Alcoholics are controllers.  They don't like to own their pain, they like to share it and will force it on you, as you have experienced.  The reason Al-anon exists is because it's a repetative pattern with alcaholics and you can count on the destruction. 

It's progressive and destructive.  I found myself calling the bar asking him to come home while I was in labor with his child.  He came home an hour and a half after I called.  That's just a mild memory.  It got much, much worse.  If I told you everything, I promise, you'd be horrified.

Another thing that anyone here can tell you, is an alcoholic can NOT drink sometimes and be in control for any length of time.  You've already seen the slips.  That progresses too.  To recover fully, an alcoholic must stop drinking forever.  No saying, just once a month, or whenever this or that.  It ALWAYS takes them back to where they were eventually.  Recovery is rarely , very rarely accomplished w/o a program.  What happens w/o it is they become what is called a dry drunk (and sometimes even with a program).  They have not worked through their issues so all the things that caused them to drink away their troubles still exist.  That usually comes out in anger and resentment, and the spouse is usually th whipping post.

As I said, I can't give advice, but I can ask you a question.

Why are you willing to marry before he stops drinking?  Wouldn't it be wiser to not start your life together with alcoholism in the picture?  If he has goals of getting sober, prove it.  Let him show you how much a life with you  means to him.  Talk is cheap, always watch the behavior.  In his eyes your agreeing to marriage means you have accepted his drinking.  You will expected to accept much, much more.

In my opinion, it's already beginning for you.   You'd be amazed at what we end up trying to tell ourselves is OK, will change, can change.  Once in al-anon, we see it for what it is, our own denial.  Our own insanity makes us think that if we love them enough they will change.  WRONG!!  They have to love themselves enough and be willing to recover.

I've been married 17 yrs now.  I've heard that he has goals to stop for every one of those 17 yrs.  There may have been weak attempts to appease me, but he never did it for the right reason, to save himself. 

 I am alone most of the time.  I miss him.  He's either at the bar or drunk when he is home, or crashed out on the couch.  I do have a small window of opportunity on Sat. and Sun morning before he starts drinking.  That is the ONLY time I see him sober.  Until he has that first drink, I watch his hands shaking.

Now he has high BP, had a stroke at the age of 42, and drinks every single day.  His Dr. told him his liver is giving him warning signs.  He's still drinking.  What would scare the hell out of you and me, doesn't them.  They live in a fog of denial.

An acronym for denial=Don't Even Notice I Am Lying.

That's all I got for ya..

Your decisions are you own.

Choose very wisely.

Christy

 

Hi Amy Welcome to MIP.

I just read all the replys and my story goes right along Christies. I knew about the alcoholism before I married my AH but married him after I thought we had hit our bottom and discussed our problems and managed to work things out once again. I have been with my aH 10 years and only married him last August. Well not two months after the wedding everything took a 360 degree turn and here I am working on me some days are better than other and contemplating divorce not even a year later. OUCH!!!

My AH does not want to quit drinking and love his life!!!! Whats not to love about it. My side of it is frightning and not so wonderful. I do have many great days where I am living well with the active A and some not so well days when I get to stinkin thinkin and guilt takes over. I don't want to scare you out of marrying this man, just be aware of just how simmilar our experiences are. One of the best things out of this relationship are my kids and there is no regret as I would never trade a life with out alcoholism for my kids.

Keep your chin up, do lots of research and get some alanon literature as it helps. Have you been to face to face meetings??? They are so essential for me.

Glad you found this board, welcome again and keep comming back!!

Love in recovery JJ

wow so many replies already!! :D  everyone here is so nice, and i like  how no one is judgmental or is trying to tell me to leave him and things like that.

i didn't write a lot about myself at the time i posted, but i did plan on elaborating more.  the post was just so long, and i found myself running out of time before work...

i'm a college student about to wrap up my last year of business school.  i want to move somewhere and start a cooperative health foods store (START, not own) and cooperative daycare/community center for kids.  i don't know where i am going to move yet, but it will be somewhere lacking those things, of course.  basically, i want to make a difference in people's lives.  i am also a freelance musician and filmmaker.  i've made a couple short films.  i have a lot of hobbies and friends, and i like myself a lot.  so i'm not letting his alcoholism bring me down at all, and i know it's not up to me, but up to him. 

i am basically his friend and i am supportive emotionally, if he needs to talk.  but i don't enable him.  i don't give him attention when he does drink.  i don't talk to him, i don't have sex with him, i basically ignore him.  i haven't yet attended a f2f or live meeting, but i intend to very soon.  there is a local chapter here, so finding a meeting won't be hard.  i look forward to networking with people who are going through what i'm going thru.

now like i said, it is not a day to day thing.  but i do realize that an alcoholic cannot just say "i'm only going to drink once a month," etc.  i know they have to totally stop to be totally functional.  he knows this too.  he does want to stop, sometime.  he knows i won't raise a family with a father OR mother who drinks.  he knows i won't want to spend my life with him, either.  but i know that HE has to be ready. 

anyway, that's all for now.  i have to get back to work :)  thanks for all your replies, everyone! 

love, amy

just to add to what i was saying earlier but had to go since i had to get back to work:  i see where a lot of you are coming from with the red flags thing.  i'm actually very aware of the red flags and despite what it may seem like, i'm not in denial, nor am i oblivious to them.  i am very aware that my lover has a problem and that alcoholism is a disease.  i also know that i do risk getting hurt later if he doesn't quit drinking for good.

there is some old saying and i can't remember how it goes, but it has something to do with taking risks.  i love this man, like i REALLY love him.  i mean, i love everything about him, down to the little flakes of skin on his body. 

the love envelops my whole heart, and i don't see a dark, ominous pit in our future...i see a tunnel, with a really bright light at the end of it.  so, even if our relationship doesn't work out in the long run, i'll be all the happier for having the experience in my life of being so in love with someone. 

i know what alcoholism does to people.  he is not the only A in my life.  my mom has had a drinking problem on and off, my dad has, my grandma on my dad's side was an alcoholic, my cousin, my uncle (who's his dad), and a few others.  i know that the alcoholic must quit drinking totally.  but i have learned to be patient with people.  to be there when they need someone, but not to let them use you or walk all over you.  to know when to draw the line.

i know that if my fiance's drinking ever starts to get bad again, or affect me in a way that is adverse again, i will separate myself from his behavior and not be an enabler.  but while things are good, i'm going to stick around. 

the only reason i say i won't have kids with an alcoholic parent is because i was a kid of two alcoholic parents.  my mom and dad were divorced, and my mom didn't start drinking until i was a teen, and it really traumatized me as a youth.  i have worked beyond that (i wish i'd known about alateen), but my sister is still living at home and she tells me that while mom drinks occasionally, she doesn't do it every night anymore (thank God).  my dad got a dui, and took that as his sign that he needed to stop.  he never kept alcohol at home, but would go out to bars at least 3 times a week.  he finally stopped and has been sober almost 2 years.

i know my fiance' will quit when he feels ready.  why?  i have faith in him.  and i love him.  he is a wonderfully intelligent and bright person.  he is a brilliant man, a sweet person, and he is VERY aware that he has a problem.  a lot of A's are in denial, but he is to the stage in the disease where he admits it is a problem.  he feels ashamed and guilty when he relapses, too (which he did twice in 6 months).  he doesn't just feel bad for making me witness him, but he knows he is only screwing himself over when he cheats.

my fiance' knows i have joined this forum.  he knows about al anon and encouraged me to find meetings.  he wants me to take care of myself.  that's pretty loving, i feel.

anyway, thank you to everyone for greeting me and welcoming me to the forum.  i can't wait to get to a meeting and meet some people who have loved ones who have this awful disease.  we need support and love for ourselves.  if you can't love yourself, who can you love?

love, amy

 

hi Amy, Yep yep yep you sound so much like me. The problem is, the disease ca make you as sick as someone who does enable. gads I had a huge post to you and the dang dog bumped my thingy and I lost it....rrrr Anyway ya it can be real nice at first, and may be nice for awhile. Relapse is part of the disease though. We can conceive have a baby and it be 2 years old and the wonderful disease worsens and there we are trying to raise a baby with a using A. The disease does not just lay dormant. It always has plans. Least that is how I see it. My marriage was good at first. Was even fun. Over the years it became as much of a shell as my husband. I have loved him all my life, he is my mate. I don't ever see him anymore. He is a walking zombie. I put boundaries up too. Lasted a little while. Soon had my own bedroom to have some peace and he had to have a radio on for tinnitis. The DUI's come, jobs are lost. He no longer plays music. He was a musician too, in a very popular band around here. Well until the main guy died from heroin and stupidly drinking and barfing....dead yep the bands, drugs, groupies. Now all that is left is the drugs, and a worn out sick man. You sound like a bright, healthy person. I know alanon will teach you skills as you continue on your path. It helps to work on you. It also helps to set up your life as if he were no part of it. I mean get your own finances, own home, own vehicle so the disease cannot take everything away from you. Becuz nine times out of ten it will. Or will die trying. It's goal is to suck dry everyone around it. The more you take care of you, the better it is for the A you love. The disease will blame you when you cry cuz it wrecked the car. The disease will blame you becuz it had to verbally abuse you. I am not saying YOU. I am just saying my experience. You will have a better chance if you learn alanon skills. If he would go to AA you have even a better chance. To me, to marry an A is like marrying someone with a brain disease that will grow and cause havok as time goes on. My A finally got so bad, I cannot stand him anymore. The disease has destroyed him Loved him over thirty years. He was a bright, handsome young man when I met him. Sexy fun, funny, introspective, kind. Then he got drafted. Came back a heroin addict. For some reason the horror of war dredged up his predisposition to be an A. I watched this wonderful guy turn into the zombie he is now. But sadly this zombie is now my husband. Amy I married him after seeing him thru several years of sobriety. He had it together. I was ignorant about the disease. Two months after we got married he had a brain tumor removed, he had a medical relapse, after a bit I realized he was brain damaged. Next thing I know he wrecks his work van. He was a contractor. I told his mom not to worry, he was not drinking. Being in denial ain't cute. He got a dui, lost his license, his van, tools, he has never gotten back to work. It has been five years. It was hell Amy. Man too long I know. Anyway after almost being homeless, I changed and protected me. I have my home, my financial security, getting a car and my sanity. He is living at his moms. If I want to I bring him here for awhile. But my boundary is violence. If he is abusive I show him the door. Not a pretty story. But a typical A one. yea it can start nice, then the roller coaster starts....no wonder I am nauseated all the time. glad you are here, keep coming. The book I love is, "Getting Them Sober" volune one. love,debilyn

thanks for all the feedback and replies, guys :)