I have a curiouse streak in me so I had to do a little research today.
I am a little aprehensive about this marriage counciling my husband wants me to go to. First of all, he says he is going to pick the councilor, because he says he doesn't want me turning one against him before we start. He says he wants them to hear his side first. He also says he is writing a big list of the problems he has with me. To begin with, if he has such a big list, why in the world does he want me to go to counciling. It seems to me like he is looking to use it as a club to attack me.
I randomly went through the phone book and asked some questions to several different councilors and groups. I asked them what there procedure was, what is their fee, and how it works.
Several of them told me, that they do an evaluation, where they speak to the couple together, then each individually and then again together to make recomendations about treatment. These same ones said that if they detect an alcohol or drug issue, they will not treat the couple until after if willing the person abusing the substance seeks treatment and is clean and sober for at least six months. They said that to do work on a marriage while alcohol or drugs is an issue is impossible as the person abusing is not capable of commiting themselves to the marriage.They said they recomend that the spouse attend Alanon until such time that counciling might be possible.
There where a few who stress teaching communication, and say that they will not diagnose an addiction, they concentrate on teaching the couple communication skills to better deal with situations that can arise.I have no idea who he will choose or what their procedure is, but these two seem to be the most common.
I also found out, that our insurance does not cover it, and it is quite expensive, some up to 150.00 and hour. The evalution alone is four sessions, 2 together and 1 each seperate.
I am wondering if my husband is looking for either someone to justify his drinking, or looking for an arena in which to abuse me. Perhaps a little of both. I do not believe it is from some great urge to get help, since his recent actions show he is not even heading in that direction at this time.
While I know that anyone who spends more than a few minutes with my husband can tell that he is an alcoholic, he will flip and swear that I somehow coached the councilor if they even suggest it. I think he honestly believes he can fool them into thinking I need to be commited or something along those lines, and that he is some poor misunderstood victim of my abuse.
I just fear that I am agreeing to waste money we don't have, and walking into a hornets nest of his choosing.
Any feedback would really be appreciated.
Love Jeannie
sanddie said
Apr 4, 2005
Jeannie:
All I can say is WOW, he has got you so intimidated hon.... Do yourself a favor and turn your thoughts away from how he is manipulating you and taking all this all personal. I have been there, with an abuser who made me think I was crazy and that I was the one causing all the abuse to him. It is a vicious cycle that one can only hope to overcome. There are 3 stages in this cycle of power and control, something you may want to read about further.
I can speak from experience because for 12 years my ex husband, husband at the time would put so much fear into me with indirect threats... I didn't even know it was happening because it was so subtle at first. A stage known as the Honeymoon Stage, which has the man (or woman) so involved in your interests that you are in complete awe over their attention. They seem to be so interested and get to know your innermost secrets, desires, dreams... Even going as far as wanting to spend so much time with you and in turn you start pulling away from family and friends because he/she is your entire world. You may have friends and he/she may more frequently want to take you places or do things with you that causes you to cancel your plans with friends/family-- indirectly, this begins isolation or contact from any support system you had known prior to this relationship. The next stage is known as the fear building stage, and usually occurs once the abuser is comfortable in knowing that their significant other has them as their primary focus in their life, having been worked on indirectly to get to this point. What occurs is little changes in attitude to start breaking down who you are as a person with intent to manipulate and control the circumstances around them, including their victim. Subtle comments begin to be made or actions representing that he/she does not like things about you, such as something you cook or wear-- all things that they had learned about you in the honeymoon stage, yet had shown how important it was to them at that time and was appealing to them. This in turn, starts the process of you questioning who you are as a person and what have you done to change yourself... you slowly start to lose self-esteem and confidence in what you once believed about yourself, your dreams or desires. This works especially well because most abusers are some of the nicest people to be around outside of the house, have GREAT personalities even and everyone likes them, listens to them. Progression of this stage usually develops anger towards your abuser and then in turn, the roles become reversed in that you are only trying to express your needs. When that anger begins, the abuser has you EXACTLY where he/she wants you because they can now say to you, look at your anger and how you are towards me-- you abuse me--- VERY TYPICAL. Ultimately, you start to feel crazy and guilty for ever having wanted to have your needs met by this time. This is VERY typical in abusive relationships. The final stage is known as the make up stage, in which after the roles are turned and you are no longer focused on your needs as who you are as a person, you are focused on the guilt that you now have in getting angry with your abuser and you become apologetic thinking that you've created this entire ordeal. Of course, the abuser then says t you, it's okay honey, I know you've had a hard day or some other bull like that justifying that it was all your problem and the cycle begins back at the honeymoon stage. Keep in mind that EACH time this cycle occurs, you become weaker and your self-esteem and confidence in who you are as a person becomes less and less.
So basically, what had started as you expressing your needs to your significant other gets distorted and turned around to developing guilt for having those needs for yourself-- breaking you down even further to the point that you begin to question the type of person you are.... Rather than having those needs addressed with compassion and care by your significant other as it should have been, a game is played and ultimately, the one who is truly sincere and compassionate begins to lose.
I took a 40 hour domestic violence training course with a State to help victims of all types of abuse. Just because there may not be physical, let me tell you the mental and emotional can do just as much or more damage to a person. Just keep in mind, NOBODY ever has a right to tell you where you need to go or that they insist that your recovery be dependent on anyone they choose you to talk with..... You are your own individual and are an adult who should make your own choices, whether you are in a relationship or not. Jeannie, let me also tell you one more thing from my own experience having been in a relationship where I lived this cycle. He broke me down completely and in my case, I had met him when I was 15 years old, which made it much harder and a longer process to work through because at that age a person is just discovering their own identity. I never had a chance to even know who I was for myself and he molded me from that stage in my life. He degrading my character that I was yet to discover before even having a chance only to build me up to make me how he wanted me to be over 12 long years. It was one of the most tolling on my mental and physical health and I was fortunate to have people practically rip me from that relationship, indirectly, but with lots of love-- til this day, I will be forever thankful for counselors, and friends in particular. My family wasn't the best with support and still struggle in their own relationships.
Also, hon let me say that there are counselors who will work on a sliding scale based on your income-- some only costing $5 or $10 a session. I had went to counseling for the last 10 years, of which now it's been a couple since I really need to go any longer. It has been the BEST money I ever spent. Without that and a REALLY good friend I wouldn't have made it.
I hope I could help with explaining the cycle of Power and Control in relationships. It was this cycle when I took my domestic violence training course a couple of years ago, after having been out of this relationship for 7 years at the time that finally helped me realize the dynamics of unhealthy, abusive relationships. If I had not gotten out, I would not be here today. That I am certain of....
Hang in there and most importantly, stay in touch with your friends, family, or own counselor who you trust completely-- whoever it is that can help you maintain who you are as a person and you feel most comfortable with sharing ANYTHING and EVERYTHING on your mind and in your heart.
Take Care!
-- Edited by sanddie at 20:44, 2005-04-04
missyg said
Apr 4, 2005
Jeannie, my A husband and I went to counseling a few years ago after a major episode (I can't even remember what it was, how sad is that?). The counselor said the same thing - that he needed treatment for drug and alcohol abuse first and until then there wasn't much he could do for us. We never went back and he didn't go to treatment, at least at that point. I "settled" for a compromise that never came to pass. Now that he's trying to get clean, I realize more and more how much counseling we do need. He wants me to trust him and I can't. 10 years of lies are hard to forget in just a few short weeks. I'm learning to let go, slowly. All I can say is that unless a person is willing to be completely honest with a counselor, it wont work. But I also know what it is to try everything you possibly can to try to save your marriage. You need to do what will make you feel best. Tonight my husband looked me straight in the eye and asked me if I would ever be able to trust him again. I think he was looking to pick a fight, but I answered him honestly. I want to. Will I be able to? I don't know. I'm going to give it a try.
with love and respect,
missy
cdb said
Apr 4, 2005
Jeannie,
Way to go! :) You did a great job on researching and you did it for you. I feel alot of admiration for you right now. To me it seems like you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Have you checked out counseling with a minister, pastor, priest, etc. Years ago my hubby and I met with our pastor and he had a man come in to meet us that had lost his wife and family from alcoholism. We were all in tears. Well, my husband was not an alcoholic at the time either. But, there are places through the church that do let a person pay according to income too. There may be resources in your community too. Some people have Employee Assistant Programs or EAP programs where you can get counseling free. I don't mean to sway your decision making. But, I do think you are very wise in checking out the options. That is what I normally do. It seems no matter what you decided it won't be good enough for your husband. So do make sure your decision is based on what is best for YOU. cdb
bob6502 said
Apr 4, 2005
Counceling is never a waste of money, Jeannie. Because there may be that one time that the alcoholic will hear something that he has not heard before and decide to change. If nothing else, maybe you will hear something that will help. In the meantime, take care of yourself. You do not have to put up with abuse. Will be praying for you, SenoraBob.
De Anna said
Apr 5, 2005
I always try every avenue before giving up. If I give up, how would I ever know if things could have gone my way. cdb has good suggestions about the sliding scale, or the church, priest, etc. Remember you both must like the counsler to feel comfortable to be honest. If one of you doesn't like the person, try another counsler. I had much experience with my son. Some counsler rubbed my son the wrong way, others made no impact. We kept looking until we found the one that clicked! Try not to think about whether he's doing it for the wrong reasons. Or if he'll use it as a battle field. A good counsler will not let harm come to you in session, including mental harm. Although I believe there are good ones & bad ones. That's for you to decide. This is step one, finding a counsler, the next step is to go. Like al anon it'll take several sessions, which might get worse before better. Try to use the al anon slogan to get you thru this too. ODAT, or one session at a time. Eventually you'll figure it out if your husband is not willing, honest enough, whether it isn't working, or if there is light at the end of the tunnel. I hope the best for you today.
Hi,
I have a curiouse streak in me so I had to do a little research today.
I am a little aprehensive about this marriage counciling my husband wants me to go to. First of all, he says he is going to pick the councilor, because he says he doesn't want me turning one against him before we start. He says he wants them to hear his side first. He also says he is writing a big list of the problems he has with me. To begin with, if he has such a big list, why in the world does he want me to go to counciling. It seems to me like he is looking to use it as a club to attack me.
I randomly went through the phone book and asked some questions to several different councilors and groups. I asked them what there procedure was, what is their fee, and how it works.
Several of them told me, that they do an evaluation, where they speak to the couple together, then each individually and then again together to make recomendations about treatment. These same ones said that if they detect an alcohol or drug issue, they will not treat the couple until after if willing the person abusing the substance seeks treatment and is clean and sober for at least six months. They said that to do work on a marriage while alcohol or drugs is an issue is impossible as the person abusing is not capable of commiting themselves to the marriage.They said they recomend that the spouse attend Alanon until such time that counciling might be possible.
There where a few who stress teaching communication, and say that they will not diagnose an addiction, they concentrate on teaching the couple communication skills to better deal with situations that can arise.I have no idea who he will choose or what their procedure is, but these two seem to be the most common.
I also found out, that our insurance does not cover it, and it is quite expensive, some up to 150.00 and hour. The evalution alone is four sessions, 2 together and 1 each seperate.
I am wondering if my husband is looking for either someone to justify his drinking, or looking for an arena in which to abuse me. Perhaps a little of both. I do not believe it is from some great urge to get help, since his recent actions show he is not even heading in that direction at this time.
While I know that anyone who spends more than a few minutes with my husband can tell that he is an alcoholic, he will flip and swear that I somehow coached the councilor if they even suggest it. I think he honestly believes he can fool them into thinking I need to be commited or something along those lines, and that he is some poor misunderstood victim of my abuse.
I just fear that I am agreeing to waste money we don't have, and walking into a hornets nest of his choosing.
Any feedback would really be appreciated.
Love Jeannie
Jeannie:
All I can say is WOW, he has got you so intimidated hon.... Do yourself a favor and turn your thoughts away from how he is manipulating you and taking all this all personal. I have been there, with an abuser who made me think I was crazy and that I was the one causing all the abuse to him. It is a vicious cycle that one can only hope to overcome. There are 3 stages in this cycle of power and control, something you may want to read about further.
I can speak from experience because for 12 years my ex husband, husband at the time would put so much fear into me with indirect threats... I didn't even know it was happening because it was so subtle at first. A stage known as the Honeymoon Stage, which has the man (or woman) so involved in your interests that you are in complete awe over their attention. They seem to be so interested and get to know your innermost secrets, desires, dreams... Even going as far as wanting to spend so much time with you and in turn you start pulling away from family and friends because he/she is your entire world. You may have friends and he/she may more frequently want to take you places or do things with you that causes you to cancel your plans with friends/family-- indirectly, this begins isolation or contact from any support system you had known prior to this relationship. The next stage is known as the fear building stage, and usually occurs once the abuser is comfortable in knowing that their significant other has them as their primary focus in their life, having been worked on indirectly to get to this point. What occurs is little changes in attitude to start breaking down who you are as a person with intent to manipulate and control the circumstances around them, including their victim. Subtle comments begin to be made or actions representing that he/she does not like things about you, such as something you cook or wear-- all things that they had learned about you in the honeymoon stage, yet had shown how important it was to them at that time and was appealing to them. This in turn, starts the process of you questioning who you are as a person and what have you done to change yourself... you slowly start to lose self-esteem and confidence in what you once believed about yourself, your dreams or desires. This works especially well because most abusers are some of the nicest people to be around outside of the house, have GREAT personalities even and everyone likes them, listens to them. Progression of this stage usually develops anger towards your abuser and then in turn, the roles become reversed in that you are only trying to express your needs. When that anger begins, the abuser has you EXACTLY where he/she wants you because they can now say to you, look at your anger and how you are towards me-- you abuse me--- VERY TYPICAL. Ultimately, you start to feel crazy and guilty for ever having wanted to have your needs met by this time. This is VERY typical in abusive relationships. The final stage is known as the make up stage, in which after the roles are turned and you are no longer focused on your needs as who you are as a person, you are focused on the guilt that you now have in getting angry with your abuser and you become apologetic thinking that you've created this entire ordeal. Of course, the abuser then says t you, it's okay honey, I know you've had a hard day or some other bull like that justifying that it was all your problem and the cycle begins back at the honeymoon stage. Keep in mind that EACH time this cycle occurs, you become weaker and your self-esteem and confidence in who you are as a person becomes less and less.
So basically, what had started as you expressing your needs to your significant other gets distorted and turned around to developing guilt for having those needs for yourself-- breaking you down even further to the point that you begin to question the type of person you are.... Rather than having those needs addressed with compassion and care by your significant other as it should have been, a game is played and ultimately, the one who is truly sincere and compassionate begins to lose.
I took a 40 hour domestic violence training course with a State to help victims of all types of abuse. Just because there may not be physical, let me tell you the mental and emotional can do just as much or more damage to a person. Just keep in mind, NOBODY ever has a right to tell you where you need to go or that they insist that your recovery be dependent on anyone they choose you to talk with..... You are your own individual and are an adult who should make your own choices, whether you are in a relationship or not. Jeannie, let me also tell you one more thing from my own experience having been in a relationship where I lived this cycle. He broke me down completely and in my case, I had met him when I was 15 years old, which made it much harder and a longer process to work through because at that age a person is just discovering their own identity. I never had a chance to even know who I was for myself and he molded me from that stage in my life. He degrading my character that I was yet to discover before even having a chance only to build me up to make me how he wanted me to be over 12 long years. It was one of the most tolling on my mental and physical health and I was fortunate to have people practically rip me from that relationship, indirectly, but with lots of love-- til this day, I will be forever thankful for counselors, and friends in particular. My family wasn't the best with support and still struggle in their own relationships.
Also, hon let me say that there are counselors who will work on a sliding scale based on your income-- some only costing $5 or $10 a session. I had went to counseling for the last 10 years, of which now it's been a couple since I really need to go any longer. It has been the BEST money I ever spent. Without that and a REALLY good friend I wouldn't have made it.
I hope I could help with explaining the cycle of Power and Control in relationships. It was this cycle when I took my domestic violence training course a couple of years ago, after having been out of this relationship for 7 years at the time that finally helped me realize the dynamics of unhealthy, abusive relationships. If I had not gotten out, I would not be here today. That I am certain of....
Hang in there and most importantly, stay in touch with your friends, family, or own counselor who you trust completely-- whoever it is that can help you maintain who you are as a person and you feel most comfortable with sharing ANYTHING and EVERYTHING on your mind and in your heart.
Take Care!
-- Edited by sanddie at 20:44, 2005-04-04
Jeannie, my A husband and I went to counseling a few years ago after a major episode (I can't even remember what it was, how sad is that?). The counselor said the same thing - that he needed treatment for drug and alcohol abuse first and until then there wasn't much he could do for us. We never went back and he didn't go to treatment, at least at that point. I "settled" for a compromise that never came to pass. Now that he's trying to get clean, I realize more and more how much counseling we do need. He wants me to trust him and I can't. 10 years of lies are hard to forget in just a few short weeks. I'm learning to let go, slowly. All I can say is that unless a person is willing to be completely honest with a counselor, it wont work. But I also know what it is to try everything you possibly can to try to save your marriage. You need to do what will make you feel best. Tonight my husband looked me straight in the eye and asked me if I would ever be able to trust him again. I think he was looking to pick a fight, but I answered him honestly. I want to. Will I be able to? I don't know. I'm going to give it a try.
with love and respect,
missy
Jeannie,
Way to go! :) You did a great job on researching and you did it for you. I feel alot of admiration for you right now. To me it seems like you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Have you checked out counseling with a minister, pastor, priest, etc. Years ago my hubby and I met with our pastor and he had a man come in to meet us that had lost his wife and family from alcoholism. We were all in tears. Well, my husband was not an alcoholic at the time either. But, there are places through the church that do let a person pay according to income too. There may be resources in your community too. Some people have Employee Assistant Programs or EAP programs where you can get counseling free. I don't mean to sway your decision making. But, I do think you are very wise in checking out the options. That is what I normally do. It seems no matter what you decided it won't be good enough for your husband. So do make sure your decision is based on what is best for YOU. cdb