abby,

in a very recent post you said, "A lot of a's dont feel they deserve to be loved so push away the people they love the most".

i know this is true, but, could you elaborate on that thought?  i am too close to the situation, and am the one being pushed away.  i am sure i know the answer somewhere inside of me..but would really appreciate your thoughts on it. 

the other question i have about this is, if they feel they don't deserve to be loved, why do they always DEMAND to be loved and respected and taken care of?  and then get angry when you aren't able to do that, because of how they treat you?

thanks in advance, if you have some insight you can share on this! 

hugs!

lori

i should have specified...i would love to hear ANYONE'S input on this...not just abby's!  i'm sure there's LOTS of wisdom out there on the subject!

thanks!

search41

Hi Lori - I agree with abby - the a in my life seemed to need me to build him up and when I didn't do ir right he would try to bring me down with words and sometimes violence. They seem to treat the ones who love them the most the worst - knowing we'll take it and come back for more. At least that's what I did. It took a lot of unacceptable behavior and violence before I started taking care of myself and setting boundaries. Love and hugs - Dot

Lori, I had to think about this question alot GOOD ONE!! It brought me back to the past couple of years dealing with the loss of my AH's parrents. He pushed me away to the point of me leaving. I believe in my husbands case he is totally afraid of the enevitable that some point in life we loose everyone we love so it is easier to by choice to push away thoes we/he cares about before that happens. This has become habbit with him, he is afraid to allow himself to feel because of the hurt he has experienced in the past. He has guarded himself to a point where alot of the time I question his love for me and why I am here especially when I have known the very caring, loving, compassionate person he was. I get the push/pull fromhim all the time and had it not been for our long relationship and me knowing him from the age of 12 I believe that I have a better understanding of him then he does sometimes, having this understanding helppes me deal with this push/pull of love and emotion.

What Abby said about the feeling like they don't deserve to be loved also plays into our relationship as well. My husband often says to me that I am a great wife as he does not deserve me and everything that I deal with from him. He openly says it and at times he does appreciate all I do for him. Although I wonder if he knows this why can't he get help for himself....

Thanks for making me think back.

Hope some of this helps. Your friend JJ

ya know, it's just one more oxy-moron in this whole mess.  that seems to be my new word....'oxy-moron'!  they don't feel they 'deserve' to be loved', they 'demand love', and push away the one they want it from!!!!  man!  no wonder i feel so crazy! 

i do see, tho, how he is looking for me to accept him and be there for him no matter what, no matter how evil he's been to me or no matter how long he's been at the bar and living like he's single....and when i can't do that, i spose it's a rejection, and that hurts him, thus....anger.  i know i handle all my hurts from HIM with anger.  the degree of anger i feel and display signifies how hurt i feel.  the louder i yell....the deeper the hurt is that i am feeling!  duh!  he does exactly what i do!!!!!  HE is the one that I am looking for acceptance and love from, and when he abandons me all the time, i feel so hurt, and i just act furious and like a major B*^%#!  no wonder i'm so sensitive to it when he acts that way.  you know...the saying...we hate the things we see in others that we hate about ourselves? 

i am not conscioiusly aware that i don't feel like i deserve to be loved, tho.  in my mind, i keep saying "i don't DESERVE this!"  but my best friend always tells me that my self esteem is so beat down that i don't feel like i deserve anything better than what i have.  that is a revelation i haven't arrived at yet...

once in a great while, in a vulnerable moment, he will tell me he knows i don't deserve to be treated the way he treats me.  i have to say...that's something i never say to him.  i am starting to see, as i type, that i should say that to him, too. 

he is always saying that everyone is out to screw him.  i guess he has felt screwed over many times in his life, so he just doesn't trust that anyone will ever be loyal to him, and i am proving him right...that not even his wife will be loyal to him.  like you said, jj, he is so afraid of me hurting him that he starts punching first (verbally, i mean).  i have always thought that he thinks that way cuz his view of life is so twisted.  but i guess everyone has a right to feel the way they do about how their life has gone.  i still think he has a very twisted view of the world and of people...thinking everyone is out to use him...but, maybe he has his reasons for thinking that.  or is that just the way all a's think? 

it's just so hard, when he's always in my face, hurting me, to see things this way.  he's out of town today at his alcohol assesment through work, so i'm feeling compassion for him cuz he's not here pissing me off!  i completely lose focus of this when he's here...or NOT here (at the bar). 

sigh...sorry, i'm really rambling, but i guess i'm just trying to work through some of this confusion.  thank you for letting me carry on!  i'm going to print all this stuff out..and hopefully i will read it when i need to get some perspective!

thanks everyone!

search41

Hi.  FYI, i am no longer with my A, but i am still suffering from the effects of this horrible disease and the breakup.  That whole business of pushing and pulling can be very confusing and hurtful.  My ex A once said "i don't know what to do about my feelings for you, they scare me".  She also said "don't you know, that's what we do, we push away the people we love".  Well, she pushed to the point of me saying the breakup words.  Now, I'm trying to work the program, I see a therapist, and have started taking anti-depressants and anti-anxiety pills.  My latest coping technique is to try to remember the reality of the disease.  Lately, if I believe that she truly did love me as much as she was capable of loving, and she pushed me away because A's don't want to feel, then I take the whole thing a lot less personally. 

She is with someone else now, and I'm trying to chalk that up to it being her M-O.  I read a comparison somewhere that A's jump from one dysfunctional relationship to another, sucking each victim dry like a vampire, and then moving on (she is very active and without a recovery program).  I really fell for her, have compassion for her, and miss her.  It's been hard to let go, but I am making a little progress.

It's all so very confusing trying to make sense of so many issues that revolve around irrationality:  pushing/pulling, do A's want to avoid feeling,...

ok, i'll stop rambling now- thanks for "listening"

mariss

I experienced the same and no longer am with my A as well.  :(  Although, I must admit I was the one pushing and pulling....  There was a constant fight going on in myself to accept the realization that I did not want to live the life with my A, only looking forward to going out on a Fri, Sat, night.  I had to come to the realization that I NEEDED to let him go because what we were doing to eachother was not healthy for either one of us.  One of the most difficult decisions I've ever had to make in my entire life.  I had to accept that he could be happy with someone else who accepted his lifestyle exactly how it was and that it wasn't the lifestyle I wanted to live.  TOUGH!!!  I love him tremendously and ALWAYS will...   However, sometimes LOVE just ain't enough-- at least our love as human beings because as much as we hate to admit it at time it is conditional.  If it weren't, we'd be God...  Only 1 Love is enough and that is the love given by God to each of us.  As long as I hold onto that love, I can go on with my life knowing that God will get both him and I through this going our separate ways.  It's tough, but two people having different perceptions of what they want in their lives is tougher.  It creates bitterness, ongoing lifelong dependency on others for support and when that happens people become fixated on always NEEDING to talk about their feelings, yet never truly moving on to overcome them and be successful for themselves.  At least this is my perception.  Talking about our problems is essential for our well-being and to work out our innermost emotions, but there does come a point that talking is just that talking... to be truly healthy, we need to learn how to let go and move on, which typically is a leap of faith and showing our complete trust in God for our lives.

Hello Search,

It appears you got some really good replies. I just know with my 20 year old daughter that she did the pushing away due to not only her disease but also due to the guilt she felt as well as her lowered self esteem that the disease caused her. After her inpatient treatment, she is an entirely new person. I will continue to say prayers for you and your family. your friend in recovery, cdb :)

Hi Lori - so nice to see u back here again. Understanding  him Lori still isn't the answer. Just know t hat it is disease.  I have heard these statements for many recovering alcholics . ree not feeling lovable. I know they hate themselves so treat us accordingly.  Al lof the behaviors u mentioned are traced to this disease. If u have access to a AA big book go to the stories in the back they may help.

You are never going to understand him lori anymore than he is going to understand truly how his drinking is affecting you. the only people who understand us are other members of this program. I had to stop taking this disease so personally ,  he was not drinking at me he drank because he has a problem . period and when i take on the guilt he is feeling this damn disease wins one more time.  Keep looking after youself and your son. God will take care of hubby.

 

abby,

i hope you see my reply.  when you said 'understanding him still isn't the answer', and, 'just know it is the disease' and 'you are never going to understand him', you know what popped into my head?  a comment i will never forget that was one of my biggest revelations of 'faith'.....my hp is God, and i was told that there are many things about Him that we will never understand or be able to explain, we just need to believe.'  the moment i heard that comment, i accepted it as true (for me).  i use this answer on my son all the time when he asked how God can see everyone, be everywhere, etc. 

so when i heard you say that, it was like, 'yes, lori!  duh!'  what a profound statement, abby!  i keep trying to 'figure it out'.  i am always trying to figure people out.  why they do what they do, what may have happened in their lives, how they might be feeling, all that.  but with my a....it's a whole different set of rules, isn't it?  when i do this with 'normal' people, it is largely what helps me be compassionate and understanding and relate to what they must be going thru.  this tactic does NOT work with my a, tho!  it just completely confuses, hurts, and PISSES me off! 

thanks so much for that comment, abby.  i read your post last nite, and that comment has just really stuck with me.  it totally goes against my nature, to not try to 'figure it out' and just 'know it's the disease'.  i have never looked at it that way, i guess..to just 'know it's the disease'.  well, i probly have at times, but  reading it last night really made sense. 

thanks again!

lori

i replied to you right below your post to me....hope you see it!

lori