Hello
I need some suggestions on dealing with a recovering alcoholic's selfish behavior.  I am tired of dealing with someone who does whatever they want to do, whenever they want to do it, with whoever they want to do it with.  I'm fed up with dealing with someone who is not willing to compromise because he always needs to have his way.  I'm tired of being in a sad and lonely marriage.  
I am tired of the work it takes to live with his behavior and am really angry that he doesn't have to doing anything at all except go do whatever he wants!  So how do you deal with someone who is sober and has made some good changes that mainly benefit himself but is still extremely self-centered, arrogant, manipulative, etc... (yet tries to makes sure that the image he portrays to the outside world is the opposite.)
 Thanks

Welcome to MIP! I'm dealing with a 4 month sober A. He is still expressing some of the behaviors of when he was active. I know his and my recovery are long processes and I'm trying to be patient. One thing I have learned by coming here and becoming familiar with alanon is that I need recovery too and take care of me. By changing some of my bahaviours things have gotten better in our relationship but there are times when I feel like there is no progress. Is he going to AA or rehab? I heard that whether the A is in a program or not does make a big difference. I am fairly new here so I don't have a lot of answers. But I do know that by coming back and reading others posts and posting myself I am helping myself a lot and I help others at the same time. Keep coming back, buick23

Welcome! This site and al anon is a great place to find yourself again. It is all about you. It is easy for us to want to blame all of our A's negative behavior an alcohol. The reality is that some people are self-centered, to begin with. Sobriety does not cure personality flaws, it only allows the A to self reflect and begin changing those flaws for themselves. In addition, we are powerless to change the behavior of others. The only thing we have control over is ourselves and how we react to others. If you have yet to attend a face to face Al anon meeting I urge you to go. Read all of the literature and learn about the program. Alcoholism is a family disease. When we live with A's we often adopt behaviors to help cope with the drinking. When sobriety arrives, it is often difficult for us to change our behavior because we don't recognize how the drinking changed us. Al anon will help you learn to focus on yourself and your health, happiness, and wellbeing. When you take care of yourself, it positively affect the entire dynamic of your life for the better. Good luck!

Yes he is going to meetings after not going for quite a few years.  He has over 10 years of sobriety and is very familiar with AA and I've attended meetings in Al Anon.  We moved and the one weekly Al Anon meeting here is poorly attended.  I guess that is why I thought of coming here.  Thank you and I did read some of the other posts on here.  Probably should of read those first before I posted.  I am very familiar with both programs and definitely need a refresher in what's suggested in Al Anon.  I do try to practice detachment and he is not nagged or scolded and is quite content with that.  He basically goes does whatever he wants to do and I am left here to deal with kids, laundry, dishes, etc...He is out of town right now because he just decided to take the day off work and visit an old friend that lives in another state.  So I was frustated last night.  I appreciate the responses and will be continuing to read the other posts here.  I will also get out the Al Anon books I have and read some of those.
Thanks

Dear pickingmyselfup:

Your topic "sober selfish behavior" grabbed my attention.  I can relate.

My AH has been in recovery for nearly a year.   Sobriety hasn't changed his tendency to do what he wants.  I don't like this fact, but I have accepted it.

While I wouldn't describe my marriage as "sad," I would say that I can relate to your lonliness.  My husband, when home, tends to sleep a lot these days.  He used to sleep due to all the alcohol in his system.  Some people tell me that his body is reparing itself; therefore, he needs the rest.  Consequently, I have more "alone time" then I would prefer.  So what do I do?  I get involved in other things.  I don't rely on him to fill that hole.  For example, a friend is coming today to just shoot the breeze with me.  I never could invite friends over in the past because I always feared my husband would be under the influence.  I'm also contemplating other avenues to fill the hole.  If my husband would like to join me, that would be wonderful.  If not, that's okay too.  Bottom line:  I do not rely on him to fulfill my needs.  That is my job.

What do I do with selfishness?  Well. . . for example, we recently paid off his 2004 pickup (nice truck!).  I continue to drive my very dependable, economical 1991 Toyota because that is my choice.  Now that his pickup is paid for, he wants a Harley Davidson.  (Silent Scream . . . . . . )  He has purschased several books on motorcycles, peruses the newspapers adds and has enrolled in a fairly expensive course that will enable him to get his motorcycle license more easily.  The course was $250.  Did he consult with me before he registered?  No.  I learned of his enrollment when we received our credit card bill.  I didn't go all ballistic when I discovered the charge, nor do I complain about his obsession with Harleys.  I calmly sat him down at an appropriate time, a time where he'd be the most receptive, and told him that in the future, I'd appreciate it if he'd discuss with me any expenditure over $100 and told him that before he ever buys a Harley, I will be buying a new car.  We have an agreement that the money in a particular account is going towards a downpayment on a new car for me in the future.

In summary, I do not rely on my husband to fill my need for companionship.  I also am striving to calmly convey to him my wants and opinions.

I would also like to add, that I do not have small children in the home.  Our children are in their early thirties.  That makes a big difference.  After do the mom thing, the homemaker thing and all that life entails, I find that I have this urge to be by myself.  I frequently entertain the thought of living a single life.  I am not certain that I want/need a full-time significant other in my life.  I know my husband senses this.

I try to keep my thoughts here, on today.  I will let the future take care of itself.

Sorry for taking so many words to tell you that I can relate. 

sounds to me that your husb must have talked to the same old timmer I did , please yourself he said then at least one of you will be happy ! and since hubby was still drinking that advice worked well for me at the time . Please find al anon meetings for yourself again u need support and friends who understand . This is a selfish disease and drinking or not it continues I learned I had to start asking (nicley) for what I needed mainly time away by myself . If hubby isn't willing there is always a sitter ,your worth it . waiting for them to see that we are hurting and lonely is a waste of time , even after 19 yrs of sobreity i occasionally have to remind my husb that there are two of us in this house . don't give up your worth the effort , Louise

ditto to the above. It is difficult at best. Go to meetings and ask HP for the answers. It is really not about us but the disease. Believe it or not this post has really, really, helped me today. That is your pain is my pain and that in a strange way helps. I am going on a trip with my AHsober (25 years of sobriety) and I talked to him this morn and just hung up. No thoughts of me or my sons just his "group". Go figure. The disease talks thru him to get to us. My strategy is to keep working on myself. Be sad if I have to. Any do the best I can to find happiness and everything else somewhere else. In support, Nancy

Hey, I can relate to you as well. My mother is a recovering alcoholic. Sometimes I think that she's made selfishness a passtime! EVERYTHING is about her, and she turns everything into a 'pity party' for herself. Yet, she goes around pretending that she's some kind of self-righteous miracle. I'm not proud to say this, but what little relationship I had with her while she was drinking I let slip away when she got sober. I always thought the booze made mom her crappy self, but it was still there even when the drinking stopped. I gave up because I could and it was easy to do. Now, here I am on this message board looking for help to get out of the situation I helped create. I know that I cannot change her, but it's too hard for me to love her and too hard for me to hate her as well. I wish I had had more patience. Please hang in there, and if you ever figure out the secret, let me know!!

Oh MY!!!!!!! Selfish Sober!!!! Just as bad as a drunk!!! I competely relate. I was wondering today if AA gets the drunks sober and if Alanon will get me to actually put my money down on the apartment instead of just sitting in the parking lot in front of the managers office. Sincerely, tonya

I found that I had a choice - wait for him to notice my needs, or make sure, on my own, that they were taken care of.  Guess which one worked better?  Actually, my husband (at least once he was sober) usually had no problem with me doing what I needed, and asking him for what I needed from him, even though it would never in  a million years occur to him to offer.

There is one thing that they say in AA though, that in my experience is true - "When a drunken a**hole sobers up, he's still an a**hole."  Some of my husband's worst behaviours went away when he stopped drinking, but most of his personality traits were just that - his personality.

So, it comes down to the same thing, all the time - he's gonna do what he's gonna do - what are YOU going to do?

Thanks for the input and suggestions.  Yes I do realize that it does boil down to what am I going to do.  Getting onto these boards has really helped.  And I am planning on going to the Al-Anon meeting this week.  I was thinking tonight that I need to watch my expectations too.  I had heard this saying a long time ago and I used to say it to myself, sometimes sarcastically-Blessed are they who expect nothing for they shall never be disappointed.  In some ways I don't agree with this and then in other ways I think it helps me to remember to keep my expectaions really low.  The expectations are hard because I think that you should be able to expect certain things from your partner but then when your dealing with alcoholism??  Setting myself up sometimes for heartache?
Anyways, thanks for your help.  Very much appreciate this forum!

What about when the A's selfishness manifests as ignoring the pain they inflicted on you and refusing to take the responsibility for their addiction and the pain it caused? Why can't I just call them out and tell them they are selfish pieces of garbage who don't deserve the gift of sobriety if they are doing it at the expense of their family?

Hi Matt I do hear you and understand your pain. Before entering alanon I would have reacted as you have suggested and thought I was in the right.
Entering program, after hitting an emotional bottom , I have learned that saying what I please does not solve any problem and might just add to thee pain I am experiencing. Please search out alanon face to face meetings in your community and attend . It is here that I learned to keep the focus on myself, live one day at a time and stop reacting but to act in a constructive manner . There is hope and help

Hi all :) Ohhhh how I feel ur pain, I find myself wondering all the time WHO I really married. I was young,20, and AH was not an drunk when we met. I don't think the partying and social life we had was in excess, and he never had a problem saying enough then.. And now 16 yrs later I ponder, who changed. Was this man I think I loved lieing, manipulating me, and covering his real self. I gave up the Army, bc he didn't want to b a military husband, college bc he didn't want me away from him. I moved 4 hrs away from my hometown to b around his fam, who never have ne thing to do w me or the kids, gave up being the youngest manager in my district, and the Only female at that, BC he didn't want to work opposite shifts like his parents. All this b4 he started drinking.. So here comes the hard part for me...I GAVE, I DID, I MOVED, I CHANGED for WHO? Not for me, but I had the power until I made the poor choices to not have it. Personal responsibility... I didn't cause it but I did allow myself to b fooled. And boy Matt, I'm pissed as H***, but if I'm totally honest probably only75% is at AH, the other at myself for being dooped...we're here and listening :)

It's hard to get why they are so selfish. I don't get it and I know he will not change. I can stomp, holler, cry, and beg. Yet, it stays status quo. I can complain. He doesn't hear me. His behavior got me to thinking. Why am I chasing after him. If he wants to be with me, he can come find me because I am not going to be a dog that sits and waits anymore. I got a life to live. It has taken me a long time to detact and get into my healthy space. Now, I just go and do what I want too. I have built a life with friends and things to do. I can't even handle the depressed mood anymore. I'm like sorry you feel that way, but I feel great because I take care of myself and I am going out. I have increased my self esteem and I am so much happier. Plus, there is no finger to point at him because the focus is on me where it should be. I figure out my daily happy list and pick one each day that I do for me. I do not feel guilty because I have done my time in the sacrifice prison. It is going to take years of pampering myself to feel better. I gave up having a relationship because it takes two willing people. If one is working at it, what does that tell me.
Love yourself and treat yourself like a princess!

I asked that question all the time- "What behavior is because of the alcohol and what behavior is because of the man." I also married someone who did not drink although his family did. After he graduated from college and got a steady job, wife, house, car, family, responsibilities........ that is when he started drinking. He has been sober 17 years now after a lifetime of drinking that is the usual story. I kept giving him a "pass" on his selfish behavior after he was sober because I thought that I "should". I kept on going to AlAnon and I gradually learned to stop giving him so many passes and make him accountable for if he is nice or not.

Last week he said something to me that was out of line and I asked him why he was demeaning me like that. I don't think he even knew what he said was hurtful until I called him on it. His reason was that he was watching a tv show that had some "dumb blondes" in it and he was caught up in the characters. I call b s on that... but it is what it is.

Anyway, take care of yourself. You are the only one who can. Keep going to AlAnon to deal with the guilt that comes when you start to put yourself first... and it feels so wrong... but it is the right thing to do. And don't think that he is going to like it when you don't do for him anymore. He will let you know that you are letting him down.

Take care of yourself.

Thanks for this post and all the E, S, & H. I can totally relate, and am helped by your question!
You are not alone!

Fergie