Looking for a balance between gratitude, hope, and the reality of this disease
Debb said
May 12, 2021
{{Texas Yankee}} you will have to arrive at that point where you are not beating
yourself up about making a decision that will in all aspects save your son's life!!!
Take heart!!! You did the right thing!!
texas yankee said
May 12, 2021
"Take heart!!! You did the right thing!!" - THANKS - I needed to hear that !!!
Debb said
May 12, 2021
Texas Yankee, you are a good Father, don't every doubt it!!
Iamhere said
May 13, 2021
(((TY))) - there is no shame ever in doing what seems necessary to save the life of your child. We try to do the best we can with what we have and know. Take good care of you and allow yourself to process all this - it's so, so shocking on many fronts when we thought they were doing good/better and we find out differently. Try to rest and allow the process to happen. You've done good even if you feel differently. (((Hugs)))
texas yankee said
May 13, 2021
"You've done good even if you feel differently." - thanks for that - these past two weeks have been horrific, culminating with checking my son into a mental health treatment facility this afternoon - so your thoughts really helped - sometimes, I get so wrapped up in the what to do and what not do do stuff that I can't make a decision, and then whatever decision I make ends up rattling around inside of me until it eats me up. I did a bit of taking care of myself today - a long bike ride, pushing hard all the way, helps me clear out the cobwebs and gets my blood flowing. And then tomorrow brings new challenges . . .
Iamhere said
May 14, 2021
TY - this may sound selfish or 'insane' yet, it's part of my reality. At any/every point in time when one of my sons was in treatment, in psych custody, in jail, in prison -- I came to find peace/calm. Not the first or second or xx time, but over time, I realized I knew they were in a protected environment and safe.
Like you, I made a directed, strong effort to put my first, take good care of me and 'stock up' on program/serenity. Simply because I am much better to others when I am serene and full of faith and much better for others in being of service. Take good care of you, trust the process and your program and just keep breathing!
texas yankee said
May 14, 2021
I've been attending more face-to-face meetings lately, and even driving a bit farther than I usually do for a meeting to stock up on the ESH that emanates from the meetings, and the conversations afterward. I do breath a bit easier when my son is "inside", but given that he's over 18, he can leave whenever he wants to - and even with a commitment order, he can still leave, the only difference being with an order, the cops\sheriff will make an effort to find him and either bring him back to the facility, or to jail for violating the order. The other wrinkle that I kinda understand, but I still find it bizarre - with the HIPAA regulations, the facility won't even acknowledge that he's in their facility.
I will say that while I can be an incredibly strong-willed and have found it so very difficult to stop enabling, when this kind of stuff happens in my world it helps me get closer, very quickly, to having the inner strength to stop enabling and stop having expectations and put myself into a place where I realize that ANYTHING can happen. Of course I still love my son very much and I still understand that he's sick, and that he has a disease - BUT with the exceptionally painful events (painful for me and my son) over the past few months, I have finally accepted the unavoidable truth - truly, I can't fix him, I can't cure him, and this may all reach a point where I need to detach completely - detach with love, for sure, but detach completely for my own sanity.
And then that self-critical voice inside of me says "well, maybe if ya had stopped enabling and did a better job of detaching sooner, maybe then none of this would be happening now".
That "self-critical voice inside of me" is figurative, not literal - LOL, I'm NOT hearing voices!
Maresie888 said
May 15, 2021
I believe with the commitment t iddir you can petitio for sure. However the final decision is the psychiatrist. Moreover there are a number of interviews
One of the problems with dealing with alcoholism is that the alcoholic is very divisive.
I do not deal on a daily intimate basis with alcoholics anymore. I do deal with the ongoing chaos
I am really sorry you have had to deal with this
Your commitment to resolve the chaos is formidable
Maresie
Iamhere said
May 15, 2021
(((TY))) - yes, yes, and yes again. So, so glad to hear that you're attending more meetings and seeking your peace/serenity however you can get there. I believe that all of us, humans and especially parents, tend to be super self-critical when there are tragic life events. Where we (family/friends of A's) might differ is we struggle to find our truth and instead believe or act upon those self-critical times. I can't tell you how much time I have spent 'playing all the tapes' of the past looking for the root cause, the moment when ...., the different path/choices I could/should have made - etc.
Where I find strength and peace and the courage to just keep going and doing the next right thing is in our program. Even if we were the worst possible parents ever (we are not....we did the best always with what we had or knew at the time), it can't be changed. The past is just that - it's the past and nothing we wish about it, want about it, dream about it, etc. can ever, ever be changed.
What we do have is the present, the here and now. Our program gives us tools and support so that we can choose to be of service instead of enabling. I do believe all that you have done with and for your son is service, not enabling. I have learned through life, trial, error and discovery in this program that projecting what I may want/need to do in the future doesn't do much for me. He will either embrace help or not. He will either get better or not. What will not change for him or you is the fact that you love him and have stood with him during his time of need.
For what it's worth, I'm distant with both of my boys. We have tried to relate and struggle to do so. I have not seen my oldest, his partner, their kids in 15 months. No holidays, a new child, mother's day, etc. It's just where we are right now and I just opt to do my own life, find my own joy, and deal with what may/may not happen at a point 'then' while trusting my program enough to just let go and let God. There was a time when I thought I would seriously not survive all 'this' and yet, here I am still, one day at a time, working to find and keep my joy no matter what is going on around me.
Family is great but it's not the end all, be all. It's one section or chapter of my life and bears different weight at different points of my story, which is still in process and being told. Keep taking good care of you and trust you have done what you can, just for today. More is always revealed and when that happens, you'll again determine how best to be of service.
Also, for the record, my youngest did walk out of a lock-down as an adult. When the police caught up with him, he had the option of returning to the facility or jail and he chose the facility. Hang in there - do what makes sense to you and know we're here as best we can be! (((Hugs)))
texas yankee said
May 16, 2021
Thanks again everyone who has responded here, and those have responded with prayers or positive thoughts - while I find the face-to-face meetings helpful, the ability to talk with someone else (either face-to-face, on the phone, or virtually) works a lot better as an ESH\support mechanism for me. This particular medium also has the added benefit of giving me plenty of time to think about what I'm reading and saying, and for me, sometimes it's the process of thinking things through that helps me the most. So, I'm grateful beyond words for all of the support I've found here.
"Family is great but it's not the end all, be all. It's one section or chapter of my life and bears different weight at different points of my story, which is still in process and being told." - of course you're right, Iamhere - and isn't that just one more terrible effect of how this disease seeks out and destroys every part of life? In the normal world, family is very import - but not with this stuff - it's so hard for me to believe that anyone can get to the point where we have to cut a family member out of our life (maybe a few steps beyond detachment with love), but when things reach a point with a loved one where we've truly accepted that we absolutely, positively can't fix them, AND that the person is unwilling, unable, or incapable of accepting help or even realizing that they need help, then what else is there to do? It's like falling down a stairwell in a skyscraper - it never ends.
A therapist with 30 years of experience that I talked with during this stuff told me that with many people who have mental health issues they are often able to keep those issues under control (for want of a better term, they appear to be relatively normal, whatever that means), at least for a while, but that many of them start to self-medicate with alcohol, drugs, food, sex, etc. - and that in these cases, any attempt to get the alcohol and drug issues under control are doomed to failure without getting the underlying mental health issues under control first - seems perfectly logical, but I had never thought about this before and NOW I understand why my son had such a hard time with his alcohol and drug issues. Not at all saying that it's in any way easier for alcoholics and addicts that have minimal mental health issues, but that bit of information from the therapist pulled in a few more puzzle pieces together for me trying to understand my son's situation.
SO now maybe I'm a few steps closer to that awful, terrible moment where I have to distance myself from him - a few steps farther down this terrible road than "detachment with love" - NOTHING I've done or tried to do over that last 18 years have helped him one bit, at least as far as I can see - likely, my well-intentioned but debilitating enabling behavior has likely harmed him. How on earth am I supposed continue to stay engaged with him (which clearly hasn't done any good), and keep what's left of my sanity? Even if I acknowledge my need to control things around me and somehow get that trait out of the situation, and even if I am somehow able to fully and completely accept all that Al Anon has been telling me about The Three Cs, and enabling, and detachment with love, over all these many years, for me there's still a big gap between believing it and doing it. My HP belief system sees a God that loves us and wants the best for us, but my HP gave us free will and he's not going to step in and stop us from doing things that aren't in our best interest, and he's not going to change the laws of nature or change history - my HP is certainly sad seeing what my son is going through, and my HP is sad for me, too, but that's pretty much as far as I see it going - for sure, my HP does send people into my life to offer me empathy and compassion - fine folks like you guys, for which I am unbelievably grateful - but given that some of our loved ones don't make it - some of them die - I have to assume that my HP ain't gonna fix it all and make it turn out good.
Debb said
May 16, 2021
Texas Yankee, one step at a time. Easy does it!!
Once your son is on the right medication and off drugs/alcohol
you will see that HP has been watching over you and him all along.
Patience my friend!!
texas yankee said
May 16, 2021
"Patience" - LOL, what's that ??? Although we've never met, you have very astutely figured out the single most deficient personal characteristic in my inventory! LOL, there's lots of broken stuff inside of me, but above all, for me, a lack of any form of patience is the single most frustrating part of my personality. I'd bet that my need for instant gratification is responsible for 80% of the problems I've created for myself. Thanks for your honesty and directness, and I'll work on it . . . .
Daffodils said
May 16, 2021
Good Afternoon texasyankee. First, I wish to send you continued prayers as you navigate through painful challenges with your son. I do not have children, therefore I cannot imagine your anguish. My spouse suffers from a serious mental illness, and in my experience, the mental illness must be dealt with first . His psychiatrist schooled me on anosognosia. He explained that it was not denial or stubbornness that impeded my spouse from taking his antipsychotics. It was a common condition of some mental health illnesses where the brain can't process the fact that their thoughts , behaviors, or moods don't reflect reality. We were blessed with a well experienced psychiatrist that conveyed to him meds are a must. This was not an overnight matter. That was my boundary also . If he fails to consistently take his daily pill, a monthly injection would be next . Next would be the door... That is non negotiable. With that in place, there is a clearer path to other areas to be treated on both our parts. I wish you continued strength and appreciate your willingness to share your struggles. You have been instrumental in my continued growth. Sending you love, light and blessings. You are an amazing father.
texas yankee said
May 16, 2021
"anosognosia. He explained that it was not denial or stubbornness that impeded my spouse from taking his antipsychotics. It was a common condition of some mental health illnesses where the brain can't process the fact that their thoughts , behaviors, or moods don't reflect reality" - WOW - I suspected that's what was going on with my son, but I never knew that there was a diagnosis that identified it - exceptionally helpful information !!!
Also, "If he fails to consistently take his daily pill, a monthly injection would be next . Next would be the door... That is non negotiable. With that in place, there is a clearer path to other areas to be treated on both our parts" - I have heard that this kind of situation develops with alcoholics who think that they can drink "normally" again, as well as with folks on stuff like bi-polar meds that think that they can go off the meds because they are "cured" - and the results can be absolutely devastating for everyone involved.
Thanks for your kinds words and your emotional support - for me, the boundary you described needs to be a must have if my son has any chance of recovery.
I hope you find the continued strength and fortitude to find your way on your journey.
Daffodils said
May 16, 2021
Hi texasyankee. I'm glad some of our experience could be of help. Take care.
Iamhere said
May 17, 2021
Prayers and positive thoughts continue TY! It is a really, really common practice for those with MH issues to feel better and stop taking meds. Thus, the cycle continues. I've got a cousin with bi-polar and she's functional and lovely when she's properly medicated. She's homicidal, paranoid and much, much more when she steps away from the medications.
Many in AA that I know have mental health issues. Not a single one can say for certain what came first - the drinking/drugs affect changed the brain causing the Mental Health issues or the reverse - the Mental Health issues led to self medicating which led to the disease of addiction. There are many opinions and even the experts do not fully know and of course, each person is different too.
In my own family, when faced with intense issues, decisions, etc. I tend to focus a ton of energy/effort on the concept of Just For Today. It helps me stay more present and focused on what I do know vs. what I don't yet know. Keep taking good care of you and I'm also not a super patient person yet see improvement through recovery. Hang in there, keep coming back and do what you can to just stay present...
yourself up about making a decision that will in all aspects save your son's life!!!
Take heart!!! You did the right thing!!
"Take heart!!! You did the right thing!!" - THANKS - I needed to hear that !!!
"You've done good even if you feel differently." - thanks for that - these past two weeks have been horrific, culminating with checking my son into a mental health treatment facility this afternoon - so your thoughts really helped - sometimes, I get so wrapped up in the what to do and what not do do stuff that I can't make a decision, and then whatever decision I make ends up rattling around inside of me until it eats me up. I did a bit of taking care of myself today - a long bike ride, pushing hard all the way, helps me clear out the cobwebs and gets my blood flowing. And then tomorrow brings new challenges . . .
Like you, I made a directed, strong effort to put my first, take good care of me and 'stock up' on program/serenity. Simply because I am much better to others when I am serene and full of faith and much better for others in being of service. Take good care of you, trust the process and your program and just keep breathing!
I've been attending more face-to-face meetings lately, and even driving a bit farther than I usually do for a meeting to stock up on the ESH that emanates from the meetings, and the conversations afterward. I do breath a bit easier when my son is "inside", but given that he's over 18, he can leave whenever he wants to - and even with a commitment order, he can still leave, the only difference being with an order, the cops\sheriff will make an effort to find him and either bring him back to the facility, or to jail for violating the order. The other wrinkle that I kinda understand, but I still find it bizarre - with the HIPAA regulations, the facility won't even acknowledge that he's in their facility.
I will say that while I can be an incredibly strong-willed and have found it so very difficult to stop enabling, when this kind of stuff happens in my world it helps me get closer, very quickly, to having the inner strength to stop enabling and stop having expectations and put myself into a place where I realize that ANYTHING can happen. Of course I still love my son very much and I still understand that he's sick, and that he has a disease - BUT with the exceptionally painful events (painful for me and my son) over the past few months, I have finally accepted the unavoidable truth - truly, I can't fix him, I can't cure him, and this may all reach a point where I need to detach completely - detach with love, for sure, but detach completely for my own sanity.
And then that self-critical voice inside of me says "well, maybe if ya had stopped enabling and did a better job of detaching sooner, maybe then none of this would be happening now".
That "self-critical voice inside of me" is figurative, not literal - LOL, I'm NOT hearing voices!
I believe with the commitment t iddir you can petitio for sure. However the final decision is the psychiatrist. Moreover there are a number of interviews
One of the problems with dealing with alcoholism is that the alcoholic is very divisive.
I do not deal on a daily intimate basis with alcoholics anymore. I do deal with the ongoing chaos
I am really sorry you have had to deal with this
Your commitment to resolve the chaos is formidable
Maresie
Where I find strength and peace and the courage to just keep going and doing the next right thing is in our program. Even if we were the worst possible parents ever (we are not....we did the best always with what we had or knew at the time), it can't be changed. The past is just that - it's the past and nothing we wish about it, want about it, dream about it, etc. can ever, ever be changed.
What we do have is the present, the here and now. Our program gives us tools and support so that we can choose to be of service instead of enabling. I do believe all that you have done with and for your son is service, not enabling. I have learned through life, trial, error and discovery in this program that projecting what I may want/need to do in the future doesn't do much for me. He will either embrace help or not. He will either get better or not. What will not change for him or you is the fact that you love him and have stood with him during his time of need.
For what it's worth, I'm distant with both of my boys. We have tried to relate and struggle to do so. I have not seen my oldest, his partner, their kids in 15 months. No holidays, a new child, mother's day, etc. It's just where we are right now and I just opt to do my own life, find my own joy, and deal with what may/may not happen at a point 'then' while trusting my program enough to just let go and let God. There was a time when I thought I would seriously not survive all 'this' and yet, here I am still, one day at a time, working to find and keep my joy no matter what is going on around me.
Family is great but it's not the end all, be all. It's one section or chapter of my life and bears different weight at different points of my story, which is still in process and being told. Keep taking good care of you and trust you have done what you can, just for today. More is always revealed and when that happens, you'll again determine how best to be of service.
Also, for the record, my youngest did walk out of a lock-down as an adult. When the police caught up with him, he had the option of returning to the facility or jail and he chose the facility. Hang in there - do what makes sense to you and know we're here as best we can be! (((Hugs)))
Thanks again everyone who has responded here, and those have responded with prayers or positive thoughts - while I find the face-to-face meetings helpful, the ability to talk with someone else (either face-to-face, on the phone, or virtually) works a lot better as an ESH\support mechanism for me. This particular medium also has the added benefit of giving me plenty of time to think about what I'm reading and saying, and for me, sometimes it's the process of thinking things through that helps me the most. So, I'm grateful beyond words for all of the support I've found here.
"Family is great but it's not the end all, be all. It's one section or chapter of my life and bears different weight at different points of my story, which is still in process and being told." - of course you're right, Iamhere - and isn't that just one more terrible effect of how this disease seeks out and destroys every part of life? In the normal world, family is very import - but not with this stuff - it's so hard for me to believe that anyone can get to the point where we have to cut a family member out of our life (maybe a few steps beyond detachment with love), but when things reach a point with a loved one where we've truly accepted that we absolutely, positively can't fix them, AND that the person is unwilling, unable, or incapable of accepting help or even realizing that they need help, then what else is there to do? It's like falling down a stairwell in a skyscraper - it never ends.
A therapist with 30 years of experience that I talked with during this stuff told me that with many people who have mental health issues they are often able to keep those issues under control (for want of a better term, they appear to be relatively normal, whatever that means), at least for a while, but that many of them start to self-medicate with alcohol, drugs, food, sex, etc. - and that in these cases, any attempt to get the alcohol and drug issues under control are doomed to failure without getting the underlying mental health issues under control first - seems perfectly logical, but I had never thought about this before and NOW I understand why my son had such a hard time with his alcohol and drug issues. Not at all saying that it's in any way easier for alcoholics and addicts that have minimal mental health issues, but that bit of information from the therapist pulled in a few more puzzle pieces together for me trying to understand my son's situation.
SO now maybe I'm a few steps closer to that awful, terrible moment where I have to distance myself from him - a few steps farther down this terrible road than "detachment with love" - NOTHING I've done or tried to do over that last 18 years have helped him one bit, at least as far as I can see - likely, my well-intentioned but debilitating enabling behavior has likely harmed him. How on earth am I supposed continue to stay engaged with him (which clearly hasn't done any good), and keep what's left of my sanity? Even if I acknowledge my need to control things around me and somehow get that trait out of the situation, and even if I am somehow able to fully and completely accept all that Al Anon has been telling me about The Three Cs, and enabling, and detachment with love, over all these many years, for me there's still a big gap between believing it and doing it. My HP belief system sees a God that loves us and wants the best for us, but my HP gave us free will and he's not going to step in and stop us from doing things that aren't in our best interest, and he's not going to change the laws of nature or change history - my HP is certainly sad seeing what my son is going through, and my HP is sad for me, too, but that's pretty much as far as I see it going - for sure, my HP does send people into my life to offer me empathy and compassion - fine folks like you guys, for which I am unbelievably grateful - but given that some of our loved ones don't make it - some of them die - I have to assume that my HP ain't gonna fix it all and make it turn out good.
Once your son is on the right medication and off drugs/alcohol
you will see that HP has been watching over you and him all along.
Patience my friend!!
"Patience" - LOL, what's that ??? Although we've never met, you have very astutely figured out the single most deficient personal characteristic in my inventory! LOL, there's lots of broken stuff inside of me, but above all, for me, a lack of any form of patience is the single most frustrating part of my personality. I'd bet that my need for instant gratification is responsible for 80% of the problems I've created for myself. Thanks for your honesty and directness, and I'll work on it . . . .
"anosognosia. He explained that it was not denial or stubbornness that impeded my spouse from taking his antipsychotics. It was a common condition of some mental health illnesses where the brain can't process the fact that their thoughts , behaviors, or moods don't reflect reality" - WOW - I suspected that's what was going on with my son, but I never knew that there was a diagnosis that identified it - exceptionally helpful information !!!
Also, "If he fails to consistently take his daily pill, a monthly injection would be next . Next would be the door... That is non negotiable. With that in place, there is a clearer path to other areas to be treated on both our parts" - I have heard that this kind of situation develops with alcoholics who think that they can drink "normally" again, as well as with folks on stuff like bi-polar meds that think that they can go off the meds because they are "cured" - and the results can be absolutely devastating for everyone involved.
Thanks for your kinds words and your emotional support - for me, the boundary you described needs to be a must have if my son has any chance of recovery.
I hope you find the continued strength and fortitude to find your way on your journey.
Many in AA that I know have mental health issues. Not a single one can say for certain what came first - the drinking/drugs affect changed the brain causing the Mental Health issues or the reverse - the Mental Health issues led to self medicating which led to the disease of addiction. There are many opinions and even the experts do not fully know and of course, each person is different too.
In my own family, when faced with intense issues, decisions, etc. I tend to focus a ton of energy/effort on the concept of Just For Today. It helps me stay more present and focused on what I do know vs. what I don't yet know. Keep taking good care of you and I'm also not a super patient person yet see improvement through recovery. Hang in there, keep coming back and do what you can to just stay present...