You are welcome Rose, and thank you for your sharing and insight. I go out of my way to read your posts regardless of the topic. You've come a long way!!!
The ego thing is a major blindspot for most people. They think ego in the real world meaning -- ego'tistical, for example, or ego'maniac. It has nothing to do with that actually. Regardless, thanks again Rose.
mamalioness said
Aug 13, 2018
Hey Bo, same here...I go out of MY way to read YOU....Thank you so much for your honest, open and "no bs" shares..you tell it like it is w/out being mean...I always learn something........always in SUPPORT
RachelsMom said
Aug 13, 2018
BO...THAT WAS EXCELLENT!!
So self love can start NOW, not a certain destination to be reached to love myself THEN. I can drop the shame of not being "normal" even though the intellectual part of my brain is telling me there is no "normal", there's only people with issues, challenges, events that caused trauma, etc. It's ok not to be "perfect". And as I grow and stumble, I am still ok because it is a process. I get it now!
I've always been a person of service and/or acts of kindness. But now I will be thinking of it as I can love myself as much as I love others.
Another subject, but I was listening to a Christian radio station this morning in my car and they were talking about pornography. I remember, as a little kid, going to my Grandparent's house (on my Father's side of the family) and beastiality porn was on the living room bookshelf like it was normal!!! And I thought it was what adults do and I sure didn't like dogs after looking at that stuff. I have never met anyone the entire rest of my life that is interested in beastiality!! And my grandfather was a drunk who regularly beat the crap out of my Grandmother who weighed all of 90 lbs. I remember, as a kid, visiting on holidays and the tension in the air was awful. Especially one holiday when my Grandmother was black and blue and I didn't understand and I hugged her and hurt her just by hugging her. Horrible, scary childhood of creepy uncles and grandfathers and great grandfathers and my father. Paralyzing fear, at times. Disassociation, night terrors, wanting to be invisable. A lifetime of unloading this.
mamalioness said
Aug 13, 2018
I can sure relate to the disassociation. I still struggle with that now in that I just go away in my head when things get to be too overwhelming. I just disconnect which doesnt help me when it comes to addressing my feelings and getting rid of those. Disassociation disorder is a real hard thing to overcome but I just force me to stay in my body and to be mindful and it starts with deep breathing And sometimes when I catch myself just in a flurry of activity without any mind behind it, I stop me and force me to breathe deep and just freeze. Dont move. Put my hands up literally up in the air and make me stay that way, I am hoping this behavioral modification will teach me to slow down stay in my body, stay present. This all goes back to my past when I had to dissociate to cope with the abuse and all the other terror that went on in that dark place where I used to live. My sire was in the pornography. I know he used to force my mother by using alcohol, hence turning her into an alcoholic, he used to force Feed her alcohol to get her to pose for deviant pornographic type pictures. My brother and I were in their room for some reason and we went into a closet and knocked down a box from the top shelf and inside of it were these disgusting pictures of our mother. He was a degenerate from the word go. Sex was his God and the more deviant the better. I just have to trust that there is karma for people like that
Aloha said
Aug 13, 2018
If you haven't already purchased them, a couple of CAL books you might find helpful are Hope for Today and From Survival to Recovery. They speak a lot to those of us who grew up in alcoholic homes.
I wanted to touch on self-love, as it was a sort of alien thought to me at times, too.
I learned in the program that part of what self-love looked like was giving myself what I wished others would give me. It could be as simple as buying myself some flowers all the way to validating myself and telling myself, "Kelly, I love you and you are so worthy of love and respect." I know the second may seem hokey, but it was something I needed to do for myself because I grew up believing that you were only special and worthwhile if others loved you. Because I was shy and unpopular in school, for example, I felt like there was something wrong with me because I didn't have lots of friends and boys asking me to be their girlfriend. No one would give me that validation I so desperately thought I needed.
I relate to the work thing, too. I actually felt pretty validated at my past job, but my new one is different. My supervisor is NOT awful, by any means, but she definitely is restrained in her ability to give praise or thanks, or rather she withholds it only for those people she seems to relate to better. I have a light-hearted attitude and sense of humor that I daresay can borderline on juvenile - she's on the cynical, sarcastic, serious side. She even goes so far as to walk in the room and greet the other person in the room but not say a word to me. She's conversational with most other colleagues, but not with me. I still go back and forth with this behavior bothering me, but I've been getting better about it. I remind myself her behavior is really about her and has nothing to do with me. I try to stick with "principles before personalities" where she is concerned and remind myself I'm not there to be buddy-buddy with everyone. I'm there to take care of a job.
Once again, self-love comes into this. I remind myself I'm a good, personable person. Maybe not totally charismatic, but I'm ultimately not unpleasant to be around. I'm friendly to everyone in the office. I speak my truth. I laugh.
It's that darn people-pleaser buried deep inside of me that squirms and wants to make this person think I'm wonderful and share fun conversations with, and ask my input on company issues.
Can't have it all. You know that saying... "can't please everyone."
So again, I can give my people-pleaser some love instead through self-validation, gratitude, and knowing my HP loves me just as I am. In the meantime, if I start getting resentful of my supervisor, I get to pray for her. What do I pray? That she's happy and healthy.
And finally, another thing is, I have lots of supportive, wonderful friends outside the office, who are more than willing to share laughter and love with me. Most of whom are my friends in recovery. So if self-validating isn't working for me, I can always reach out to others, let them know I'm struggling, and they are always there for me. We're all there for each other.
Bo said
Aug 13, 2018
Thank you RachelsMom...and on that note, Rachel obviously has a name...so, do you? LOL. Anyway, self-love, as part of any recovery, medical, mental, or otherwise, has to start and be a part of whatever that process is or whatever process you desire to undertake. The process is tainted if self-love is not present. It would be just like back, before my recovery, when I was not well, healthy, etc. -- I would get a text and ask my sponsor how to respond. If he suggested a response and I sent it...all that is was an unhealthy person sending a text written by a healthy person. Get it? I was not healthy. I was not being authentic. I was also not prepared to follow through with the mindset and behavior of the text...because it wasn't mine! Same thing with self-love. Go far enough down the road without it, and you will see that it is so needed...and you kind of left home without it, LOL.
Dropping shame, well, that's about many things -- acceptance, self-worth, ego, etc. The alanon program is about progress NOT PERFECTION. Go gentle unto yourself. Be gentle on yourself. Forget about normal. Keep it simple. Yes, perfection is not what we learn, go gentle unto yourself and as you move forward, you will stumble and yes, that's expected, it's supposed to happen, and it's going to happen and it will be OK, because it is a process. Remember, recovery, being healthy, being well, is a journey...not a destination.
While this forum is not a conference approved alanon forum, one thing we learn in alanon is that alanon is a spiritual program, not a religious one. I understand your point about your grandparents and all, however, I only bring up alanon not being a religious program because many religions share their beliefs on many topics, and that is not what alanon is about. If one chooses to bring their religion and their respective beliefs into THEIR recovery...that is their prerogative. However, that is not part of the alanon program. Focus on YOU. You are making some very good progress.
mamalioness said
Aug 14, 2018
So self love can start NOW, not a certain destination to be reached to love myself THEN. I can drop the shame of not being "normal" even though the intellectual part of my brain is telling me there is no "normal", there's only people with issues, challenges, events that caused trauma, etc. It's ok not to be "perfect". And as I grow and stumble, I am still ok because it is a process. I get it now!
I've always been a person of service and/or acts of kindness. But now I will be thinking of it as I can love myself as much as I love others.
************************* YES YES....I do it even tho I may still be "faking/acting as if" I treat me AS IF I love me, respect me, value me....and I do it NOW....there is no destination in recovery, only a journey, ..a long, life long journey, and as I travel, I try to look at the beautiful foliage and wildlife on the way, I meet folks who last in my life, most don't, but they all carry something I need to learn....ACT AS IF and i TELL me, that was HIS evil, never mine...I burn my incense and light my candles and I journal and I "chat" with me..telling me that I am just as good..I ACT AS IF...the subconscious mind is power w/out direction..It will "buy into" and bring to fore anything I feed it..If I "make believe" subconscious mind is not going to question it, it will manefest what I am "telling or demonstrating to it"....I believe in things coming in threes....you have the conscious mind..the sub conscious mind adn the super conscious mind or the CORE/Spirit self.....they traumatized me so my CORE had to hide so my subconscious mind was like a runaway train...switch the tracks and it would careen south...switch em again, it mindlessly careened north....so I am using my conscious mind to do my "make believe" a concerted effort in acting as if I love me..value me...treasure my existence...I defend me, stand up for me..treat me to nice things, etc., I say "good job" to me when I do something good...yea, i slip, but whenI do, I challenge it..."take it to court" "WHO said you are stupid bitch??? HIM??? and you are gonna belive a freak who didn't deserve to breathe the same air as you??? a creep and degenerate who left NO good memories behind when he died???? you're gonna belive a LOSER?????"
you see what I'm saying here??? when those ugly old tapes come up, the lies and BS they fed me, I take them to the "court of 12 steps...the court of what is RIGHT" and little by little "his" UGLY voice is losing its power....her nasty, lowlife comments to me show me she was a lowlife...no better than a predator herself to enable him, to cover up for him and "I'm the loser??? the stupid bitch???" well I'm better then them because I got honest with me in the programme....I am doing the recovery work...I am learning how to be a good human being.....and guess what??? when I die, i will leave behind love and laughter memories of me....NOT the crappy, misery ladened memories those two losers left behind....
so WHO bares the shame??? NOT me...I dont' own THEIR sewerage....THEY do.....
Sorry, I got carried away here, but I hate to see a survivor of hideous evil, like you and me and your daughter self destruct over THEIR LIES!!!! THEY own that darkness.....NOT us....we are as clean and pure as the next beloved spirit of the universe....we were made in LOVE, not hate....BEAUTY, not ashes....HONOR, not moral decay....and by golly, I am claiming MY life, and MY right to happiness....
YOU can too....Together, lets do something: Today is the beginning of the rest of our lives.....lets make it a GOOD today...A love filled today....A progress today.....a break out of jail today......a TRUTH today and the TRUTH is that we are precious children of the universe..special..unique...our own gifts to offer...You do your service in nursing...an act of love...Now love you as much....I reach out to animals and kids, and comforting other broken hearts like me...now I am reaching out to and comforting ME....Its about time...this is OUR turn now...
we got a deal?????
RachelsMom said
Aug 17, 2018
Yes, Mamalioness...we've got a DEAL!
Bo-my name is Dale. A female Dale, like Dale Evans.
I'm still recovering from a double shift I wasn't expecting. I'm too old for 16 hrs at work overnight!!! Whew.
I'm still having some conversations with Rachel. I stopped in at her work but she had the day off. She is trying to figure out how to put aside money to get a vehicle. I understand why she wants one but I don't think she is ready for one. Not my circus, not my monkeys! She also wants to get to counseling which I will help get her there if it's' not to early in the morning. The mental health crisis center is a walk in service and free or sliding scale. Her priorities are not necessarily MY priorities but I can't control that. I would want to know about STDs and general health and vitamin deficiencies first. Maybe that is the nurse in me though.
I am still thrilled beyond belief that she is out of the big city and HAS A JOB!!! How did this miracle happen?????
-- Edited by RachelsMom on Friday 17th of August 2018 03:17:29 PM
Bo said
Aug 17, 2018
Not my circus, not my monkeys.
I've always loved that saying...and it is so applicable to everything alanon teaches us.
Pol said
Aug 17, 2018
Your post really touched me and I just want to say that your doing the best you can (hugs).
mamalioness said
Aug 18, 2018
hey Dale..you "sound" great..focused...keeping it (focus) on you...detaching with love.......recovery is lookin good on you, girlfriend....
Aline said
Aug 18, 2018
Hey, Dale :) I'm just chipping into this thread a bit to say thanks to all who have shared. (Lack of) self-esteem is something that is on my mind a bit more lately and I love the ESH shared here.
Dale - so great you are here! This program is where "the good dope" is :D The real hope and help, a way of life that actually works - if we work it. Keep coming back
The ego thing is a major blindspot for most people. They think ego in the real world meaning -- ego'tistical, for example, or ego'maniac. It has nothing to do with that actually. Regardless, thanks again Rose.
So self love can start NOW, not a certain destination to be reached to love myself THEN. I can drop the shame of not being "normal" even though the intellectual part of my brain is telling me there is no "normal", there's only people with issues, challenges, events that caused trauma, etc. It's ok not to be "perfect". And as I grow and stumble, I am still ok because it is a process. I get it now!
I've always been a person of service and/or acts of kindness. But now I will be thinking of it as I can love myself as much as I love others.
Another subject, but I was listening to a Christian radio station this morning in my car and they were talking about pornography. I remember, as a little kid, going to my Grandparent's house (on my Father's side of the family) and beastiality porn was on the living room bookshelf like it was normal!!! And I thought it was what adults do and I sure didn't like dogs after looking at that stuff. I have never met anyone the entire rest of my life that is interested in beastiality!! And my grandfather was a drunk who regularly beat the crap out of my Grandmother who weighed all of 90 lbs. I remember, as a kid, visiting on holidays and the tension in the air was awful. Especially one holiday when my Grandmother was black and blue and I didn't understand and I hugged her and hurt her just by hugging her. Horrible, scary childhood of creepy uncles and grandfathers and great grandfathers and my father. Paralyzing fear, at times. Disassociation, night terrors, wanting to be invisable. A lifetime of unloading this.
If you haven't already purchased them, a couple of CAL books you might find helpful are Hope for Today and From Survival to Recovery. They speak a lot to those of us who grew up in alcoholic homes.
I wanted to touch on self-love, as it was a sort of alien thought to me at times, too.
I learned in the program that part of what self-love looked like was giving myself what I wished others would give me. It could be as simple as buying myself some flowers all the way to validating myself and telling myself, "Kelly, I love you and you are so worthy of love and respect." I know the second may seem hokey, but it was something I needed to do for myself because I grew up believing that you were only special and worthwhile if others loved you. Because I was shy and unpopular in school, for example, I felt like there was something wrong with me because I didn't have lots of friends and boys asking me to be their girlfriend. No one would give me that validation I so desperately thought I needed.
I relate to the work thing, too. I actually felt pretty validated at my past job, but my new one is different. My supervisor is NOT awful, by any means, but she definitely is restrained in her ability to give praise or thanks, or rather she withholds it only for those people she seems to relate to better. I have a light-hearted attitude and sense of humor that I daresay can borderline on juvenile - she's on the cynical, sarcastic, serious side. She even goes so far as to walk in the room and greet the other person in the room but not say a word to me. She's conversational with most other colleagues, but not with me. I still go back and forth with this behavior bothering me, but I've been getting better about it. I remind myself her behavior is really about her and has nothing to do with me. I try to stick with "principles before personalities" where she is concerned and remind myself I'm not there to be buddy-buddy with everyone. I'm there to take care of a job.
Once again, self-love comes into this. I remind myself I'm a good, personable person. Maybe not totally charismatic, but I'm ultimately not unpleasant to be around. I'm friendly to everyone in the office. I speak my truth. I laugh.
It's that darn people-pleaser buried deep inside of me that squirms and wants to make this person think I'm wonderful and share fun conversations with, and ask my input on company issues.
Can't have it all. You know that saying... "can't please everyone."
So again, I can give my people-pleaser some love instead through self-validation, gratitude, and knowing my HP loves me just as I am. In the meantime, if I start getting resentful of my supervisor, I get to pray for her. What do I pray? That she's happy and healthy.
And finally, another thing is, I have lots of supportive, wonderful friends outside the office, who are more than willing to share laughter and love with me. Most of whom are my friends in recovery. So if self-validating isn't working for me, I can always reach out to others, let them know I'm struggling, and they are always there for me. We're all there for each other.
Dropping shame, well, that's about many things -- acceptance, self-worth, ego, etc. The alanon program is about progress NOT PERFECTION. Go gentle unto yourself. Be gentle on yourself. Forget about normal. Keep it simple. Yes, perfection is not what we learn, go gentle unto yourself and as you move forward, you will stumble and yes, that's expected, it's supposed to happen, and it's going to happen and it will be OK, because it is a process. Remember, recovery, being healthy, being well, is a journey...not a destination.
While this forum is not a conference approved alanon forum, one thing we learn in alanon is that alanon is a spiritual program, not a religious one. I understand your point about your grandparents and all, however, I only bring up alanon not being a religious program because many religions share their beliefs on many topics, and that is not what alanon is about. If one chooses to bring their religion and their respective beliefs into THEIR recovery...that is their prerogative. However, that is not part of the alanon program. Focus on YOU. You are making some very good progress.
So self love can start NOW, not a certain destination to be reached to love myself THEN. I can drop the shame of not being "normal" even though the intellectual part of my brain is telling me there is no "normal", there's only people with issues, challenges, events that caused trauma, etc. It's ok not to be "perfect". And as I grow and stumble, I am still ok because it is a process. I get it now!
I've always been a person of service and/or acts of kindness. But now I will be thinking of it as I can love myself as much as I love others.
*************************
YES YES....I do it even tho I may still be "faking/acting as if" I treat me AS IF I love me, respect me, value me....and I do it NOW....there is no destination in recovery, only a journey, ..a long, life long journey, and as I travel, I try to look at the beautiful foliage and wildlife on the way, I meet folks who last in my life, most don't, but they all carry something I need to learn....ACT AS IF and i TELL me, that was HIS evil, never mine...I burn my incense and light my candles and I journal and I "chat" with me..telling me that I am just as good..I ACT AS IF...the subconscious mind is power w/out direction..It will "buy into" and bring to fore anything I feed it..If I "make believe" subconscious mind is not going to question it, it will manefest what I am "telling or demonstrating to it"....I believe in things coming in threes....you have the conscious mind..the sub conscious mind adn the super conscious mind or the CORE/Spirit self.....they traumatized me so my CORE had to hide so my subconscious mind was like a runaway train...switch the tracks and it would careen south...switch em again, it mindlessly careened north....so I am using my conscious mind to do my "make believe" a concerted effort in acting as if I love me..value me...treasure my existence...I defend me, stand up for me..treat me to nice things, etc., I say "good job" to me when I do something good...yea, i slip, but whenI do, I challenge it..."take it to court" "WHO said you are stupid bitch??? HIM??? and you are gonna belive a freak who didn't deserve to breathe the same air as you??? a creep and degenerate who left NO good memories behind when he died???? you're gonna belive a LOSER?????"
you see what I'm saying here??? when those ugly old tapes come up, the lies and BS they fed me, I take them to the "court of 12 steps...the court of what is RIGHT" and little by little "his" UGLY voice is losing its power....her nasty, lowlife comments to me show me she was a lowlife...no better than a predator herself to enable him, to cover up for him and "I'm the loser??? the stupid bitch???" well I'm better then them because I got honest with me in the programme....I am doing the recovery work...I am learning how to be a good human being.....and guess what??? when I die, i will leave behind love and laughter memories of me....NOT the crappy, misery ladened memories those two losers left behind....
so WHO bares the shame??? NOT me...I dont' own THEIR sewerage....THEY do.....
Sorry, I got carried away here, but I hate to see a survivor of hideous evil, like you and me and your daughter self destruct over THEIR LIES!!!! THEY own that darkness.....NOT us....we are as clean and pure as the next beloved spirit of the universe....we were made in LOVE, not hate....BEAUTY, not ashes....HONOR, not moral decay....and by golly, I am claiming MY life, and MY right to happiness....
YOU can too....Together, lets do something: Today is the beginning of the rest of our lives.....lets make it a GOOD today...A love filled today....A progress today.....a break out of jail today......a TRUTH today and the TRUTH is that we are precious children of the universe..special..unique...our own gifts to offer...You do your service in nursing...an act of love...Now love you as much....I reach out to animals and kids, and comforting other broken hearts like me...now I am reaching out to and comforting ME....Its about time...this is OUR turn now...
we got a deal?????
Yes, Mamalioness...we've got a DEAL!
Bo-my name is Dale. A female Dale, like Dale Evans.
I'm still recovering from a double shift I wasn't expecting. I'm too old for 16 hrs at work overnight!!! Whew.
I'm still having some conversations with Rachel. I stopped in at her work but she had the day off. She is trying to figure out how to put aside money to get a vehicle. I understand why she wants one but I don't think she is ready for one. Not my circus, not my monkeys! She also wants to get to counseling which I will help get her there if it's' not to early in the morning. The mental health crisis center is a walk in service and free or sliding scale. Her priorities are not necessarily MY priorities but I can't control that. I would want to know about STDs and general health and vitamin deficiencies first. Maybe that is the nurse in me though.
I am still thrilled beyond belief that she is out of the big city and HAS A JOB!!! How did this miracle happen?????
-- Edited by RachelsMom on Friday 17th of August 2018 03:17:29 PM
I've always loved that saying...and it is so applicable to everything alanon teaches us.
hey Dale..you "sound" great..focused...keeping it (focus) on you...detaching with love.......recovery is lookin good on you, girlfriend....
Dale - so great you are here! This program is where "the good dope" is :D The real hope and help, a way of life that actually works - if we work it. Keep coming back