you have hub's, and his mum's, narrative... which does not mean it is true- just true for them...
we learn to find our own truth, in Alanon, by working together- and sometimes finding peace and serenity when alone.
Your thread here- is in effect a mini-meeting... where you have called the topic.
When I look at the responses, including yours... I feel immensely proud- of the group- and of alanon too... [brings tears of joy to my eyes].
Step one is hard and painful... I liken it to a thorn under the skin- once the thorn is out the body can heal.
So immensely proud... and so grateful- that there are hints of hope in this world... ...
A nother said
Aug 2, 2018
But I think I did cause it. At least for the last few years anyway. He is sure that without the constant pressure I put on him, he wouldn't have had the binges. He thinks that if I lighten up he won't feel the need to get so drunk. He might be right. Am I throwing my marriage away? Should I try for a bit longer, try this new way of not controlling him? He can't see himself living the rest of his life without alcohol, but is willing to give it a few months whilst I learn these techniques. I've explained some of the theory to him. Could it be that there isn't a drink issue, but a control issue instead? Am I on the right forum? Should I be talking to codependent anonymous?
A nother said
Aug 2, 2018
David G, you are so nice!
DavidG said
Aug 2, 2018
A nother wrote:
David G, you are so nice!
Aw, thanks A. ...
I think you are in exactly the right place... ...
I think you have the capacity to find your own way through... ...
DavidG said
Aug 2, 2018
&...
if hubs is an alcoholic- he will not be able to moderate his drinking... well, not for too long, anyway...
As you will realise- unlike other illnesses- there is no foolproof test for alcoholism...
So if a partner has to opportunity to moderate- this is one way of finding out...
Alanon is about just taking care of ourselves... also having the strength and support to take care of kids- dependents...
and it puts us in a much better space to make day to day decisions- without anxiety, or pressure.
One day at a time... ...
...and keep coming back- it does work if we work at it... ...
People are advised to attend six meetings- to check things out.
Attending here... in a group like this- does cover a lot of ground... But I would give it six weeks... just to see what happens.
Getting feedback to members here- is a great gift... we do form strong bonds of trust... ... we do care... and hearing back it just great!
It is a mild afternoon here- late winter- where I am sitting... must go out a prune my grape vines... ...
Aloha said
Aug 2, 2018
So many of us Al-Anon members are co-dependents.
CoDA could be a place you look into, but I'm not so sure they actually discuss and address the disease of alcoholism like Al-Anon does. And I find the Al-Anon principles do a very good job of addressing co-dependence.
Al-Anon is for people who have a problem with someone else's drinking. You more than qualify to attend Al-Anon meetings.
Your husband drinks because he is an alcoholic. NOT because you put pressure on him. That is a typical blame-game alcoholics play with their loved ones. "I wouldn't drink so much if you would just..."
Other reasons alcoholics drink:
- They want to celebrate
- They want to wind down
- They deserve it
- They're irritated
- They're happy
- They're bored
- They're thirsty
- Someone made them mad
- Someone paid them a compliment
- It's a special holiday
- It's Friday
- It's Monday
- It's cold out
- It's hot out
- The sun is shining
- Just because...
Alcoholism is a spiritual disease. A disease of the mind. Alcoholics typically cannot cope with life on life's terms so they turn to alcohol to escape reality. If they have the physical allergy to alcohol, they become addicted. Physically.
I had an alcoholic who is in recovery explain to me once that when he first quit drinking, his body was screaming at him to have a drink.
Have you ever been extremely hungry? I mean really, really hungry - like you forgot to eat all day, or outside circumstances made it impossible to eat something? I picture that feeling I get when I'm ravenous as maybe a slight insight to what the alcoholic is going through when they try to not drink without any support. I'm irritable - downright hostile at times because all I can feel is my body screaming at me to eat something and all I want to do is get some food in me.
Another thing a recovering alcoholic told me is that it scares them to think of not ever being able to drink again. Your husband said "He can't see himself living the rest of his life without alcohol". I would say it sounds like he's got a problem.
Alcoholics drink It's what they do.
I really hope you get to some face-to-face Al-Anon meetings. Go to al-anon.org to find meetings near you. Get to at least six before you decide if Al-Anon is for you or not.
Best of luck to you.
DavidG said
Aug 2, 2018
A nother wrote:
I'm new to this so please be gentle.
*****************************
Yes, I read this four days ago... and listened... I hear you...
mamalioness said
Aug 3, 2018
Aloha wrote:
So many of us Al-Anon members are co-dependents.
Alcoholism is a spiritual disease. A disease of the mind. Alcoholics typically cannot cope with life on life's terms so they turn to alcohol to escape reality.
Another thing a recovering alcoholic told me is that it scares them to think of not ever being able to drink again. Your husband said "He can't see himself living the rest of his life without alcohol". I would say it sounds like he's got a problem.
OMG...Aloha, your share was so great , I had to read it more than once to savor the wisdom....THANK you for helping me learn yet more about this horrid disease..and oh yea, if a leaf falls of a tree, they gotta drink...and I think my brother is drinking himself to death because parents were relatively "OK" with him, yet they nearly killed me and DID drive our other brother to suicide, so "R" can't face life w/out being drunk....and I agree...I think he is scared to face life sober..w/out his "crutch" or "liquid courage".....he told me flat out "I will never quit drinking...I feel good when I drink" yea, he feels "good" because he is too zoned out for life to "bother" him with bad memories and such......thank you again for your OH so powerful share.....I truly got a lot out of it....and yea, it made me feel some compassion for the slavery they must be in...No!! I will never be with one again...No!! I will never even date or hang out with one again, but I DO feel compassion for the spirit that is in 80 proof chains..........
mamalioness said
Aug 3, 2018
A nother wrote:
David G, you are so nice!
YES, our David...You ARE so NICE!!!!!
mamalioness said
Aug 3, 2018
Hey Nother: If this were me, I would not go...My ExAH #1 used to "drag" me to functions where there would be drinking (I confess, I drank, too, but was more interested in the food) anyway, he would insult me, put me down, just be a jerk and folks did think, some of them, that maybe I was an irritant to him..somehow his buddies and family incorrectly figured it was something wrong with me...so I quit going...let him go by himself, THEN they saw what a jerk he was....inappropriate remarks to the female guests...sarcastic , and by himself...NOT with me...so the family just didn't say anything but they SAW...the friends?? all of a sudden I had supporters where at first I did not...MY friends were never invited to these family things, so i was the lone ranger as far as allies were concerned...well, after a few of his horror shows with his big, nasty mouth, they realized that it was NOT me....
I quit going to functions with him and never regretted my decisions.....So, I support you...follow your gut instincts..follow what your HP within you is saying and bollix to the rest of them
Mattie said
Aug 3, 2018
I think there are two reasons that narrative of "He wouldn't drink if I didn't [fill in the blank]" is so powerful.
One is that it's so enticing to believe that we have some control over their drinking - that we are involved in any way, even if it's not a good way - that we have an influence of some kind. But the thing is that let's say he feels stressed by your behavior and his impulse is then to drink. He has umpteen other choices of how to respond to behavior he finds stressful. He could go into therapy and learn to set boundaries. He could join a self-help group and learn how to cope with stress. He could join a gym and work out to de-stress. He could join a sports league and play sports to de-stress. He could play poker. (But avoid gambling excessively!) He could go fishing with his buddies. He could put together model airplanes. He could play computer games. He could join a fantasy sports league. He could join AA. He could decide that you could both separate. But he has chosen drinking above all these options. Why? Because alcoholism produces its own compulsion to drink. Once it starts, it's like a runaway train.
The second reason it's so tempting to believe that you're the cause is that he probably believes it himself. My A had a series of reasons why he "had" to drink. He felt stressed because he wasn't making much money. Then he was making more money, but he felt stressed because the work was too much pressure. Then the work eased off, and he felt stressed because his mother was getting on his case. Then his mother turned her attention to other things, and he felt stressed because I didn't like his drinking. Then we split up, but he felt stressed by... I think he sincerely believed that each of these situations was out of his control and "made" him drink. And he just had to wait till that miraculous time when nothing in his life was at all troublesome, and he wouldn't drink. But you know, millions of us have difficult lives and don't try to "solve" the problem by drinking. This blaming of other people is all part of the alcoholic's syndrome of acting as if he's controlled by outside events. That's one of the reasons one of the fundamental tools of AA (and of Al-Anon) is to examine: "What is my part in it?" That's a question that alcoholics desperately avoid.
It's easy enough to check whether you're responsible for his drinking - you can easily stop the so-called behavior that "causes" it. My guess is that if you stop blaming him, he may appear to stop drinking (because he wants to make that scenario look true), but soon it will become clear that he's still doing it. If you split up, there will be some reason it's still your fault. ("You pressured me for too many years ... you're not supporting me ... you split up with me and so I have to drink ... you won't give me the bureau and the coffee table ... I miss the dog ..." - whatever.) It will go on until he finds something else to blame.
Hugs. None of this is easy.
Bo said
Aug 3, 2018
A nother wrote:
But I think I did cause it. At least for the last few years anyway. He is sure that without the constant pressure I put on him, he wouldn't have had the binges. He thinks that if I lighten up he won't feel the need to get so drunk. He might be right. Am I throwing my marriage away? Should I try for a bit longer, try this new way of not controlling him? He can't see himself living the rest of his life without alcohol, but is willing to give it a few months whilst I learn these techniques. I've explained some of the theory to him. Could it be that there isn't a drink issue, but a control issue instead? Am I on the right forum? Should I be talking to codependent anonymous?
You did not cause it -- it being the drinking. Of course he is sure of it!!! And you are buying into it. This is what alcoholics do -- they blame, use guilt, manipulation, love, threats, anger, begging, pleading, deflection, martyrism, victimization, and anything else they can, to accomplish two things...one is to keep drinking. Status quo. They want to drink and not have anything get in the way of them drinking. And, two, to keep the focus off their drinking. They don't want it to be a big deal. They want us to accept it. They don't want it to be the focal point -- so what is then? Everyone and everything else!!! This is the baffling, cunning, insidious, enigmatic, progressive, and confusing nature of this disease! Of course he wants you to lighten up!!! So his drinking is not a problem!!! He is not right!!!
It doesn't matter what you did, said, or whatever. You did not cause it. It has nothing to do with pressure, binges, beer, wine, shots, work, home, or whatever. His drinking is on and about him -- it's a disease. It's up to him to get better. However, it doesn't matter...don't focus on him. Focus on YOU.
Just know...you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it. This is why you have to go to meetings, face to face, conference approved alanon meetings.
That said, this is ludicrous. He is willing to give up drinking for a few months, while you learn "these techniques" as you call it? So he gives up drinking for a few months while you learn to be OK with his drinking. In all due respect -- your thinking is so distorted and you need to get to a face to face meeting ASAP. That is not what alanon is about. You've explained the theories to him? Again, this is not about you explaining to him how you want to get better, if in fact you do. I don't know what it is you are hoping for. Maybe that's something you need to figure out. If you want to get better, alanon is for you. It is not for you to explain alanon to him so that he understands what you are learning and when you are done, he can go back to drinking because you will be OK with it. He can't see himself going the rest of his life without drinking. What about you? Can you see yourself going the rest of your life with him and his drinking?
All the best.
DavidG said
Aug 3, 2018
Oh boy! Gross expressions of cross-talk!
A Nother is a new member- on Step One! Hey!
I read your post Aloha and bit my tongue. But now Mattie and Bo!
I am not saying you are wrong. I am not saying that A Nother is wrong... this was NOTHER'S share- but I think it has been hi-jacked.
I believe that the leadership here should call a conscience meeting- on the business board. Not a good look here. ...
Tradition 8. Al-Anon Twelfth Step work should remain forever non-professional, but our service centres may employ special workers.
None of us is qualified to determine who is, or isn't an alcoholic. Especially not someone we have never met!
In theory, even the family member does not have that right. This is the call of the family member themself. Or between the family member and a health professional.
In Alanon I was always told- we can offer opinions- when asked. But we do not offer advice.
Our sister and new member A Nother asked us especially to be gentle. I believe we should respect this. To listen before we leap!
Take care y'all... one day at a time.
DavidG.
A nother said
Aug 3, 2018
Thanks for the replies, I posted again twice last night but neither appeared! Probably a good thing, I wasn't in a good place. Today things are clearer. He's at the wedding. He had to take the car to get there and I told him last night that I wasn't going to control his behaviour anymore, or object to his drinking. Obviously that is with the caveat that I want him away from the children when he's drunk.
He text me at 4pm to say that he's decided not to come home tonight. I said, ok see you tomorrow. What I wanted to say was, I've got my first Al anon meeting tomorrow at 11.30. it is 2 hours long, and I need the car.
Bo said
Aug 3, 2018
Enough said. Agree, or disagree, I'm out.
All the best.
DavidG said
Aug 3, 2018
Bo.
Good moves Nother... this is a 24 hours programme... it is a tough road, especially in the first week!
This is a tight, strong group... come midday, Nother, you might be in a meeting f2f. But you may not- uncertain...
every single member here reading is rooting for you... we should never feel alone.
DavidG said
Aug 3, 2018
Mattie wrote:
Hugs. None of this is easy.
...
A nother said
Aug 3, 2018
Ah, just read all the replies. I hadn't realised that there was a page 2!!
Sorry I have become a bit dependent on this board this week. All of the replies have helped, even the ones David thought was harsh. I know I'm posting verbal rubbish. I have found your perspective so helpful (I can't begin to explain how helpful).
I recognise that you have a system here, so I will not post on this thread again, but I will post new ones which deal with specific things and not this Mish mash.
DavidG said
Aug 3, 2018
A nother wrote:
I recognise that you have a system here,
hmmm... I think you broke new ground...
...you are smart... and confident... I have huge respect for your comments.
Iamhere said
Aug 3, 2018
A Nother - I missed what happened and am sorry if I should have done/stepped in (as a moderator). What I hope for you is that you rest and be gentle with you while he's at the wedding. I am so glad to hear you are going to a meeting - I hope you find some local support from others in recovery who truly do understand what it's like to live with and love an alcoholic.
We all have opinions and at times, they are expressed through the lens of the sharing person. I believe it is always important to recognize and accept that no matter how long one is in recovery - one day or years and years, we are all equals. We are not to pass judgement, give advice, direct another, etc. We also live and share with an understanding of 'take what you like and leave the rest' - which allows us to consider what is shared but discard if it's not applicable to our situation.
I also think it's important to remember that we are all here because we've all been affected by this disease in another we care about - family or friend. For me, that means my definition of serenity may be different than yours or David's or (insert member here). My definition of serenity has also changed from my first week to present day. In the beginning, I was grateful for an hour without drama/chaos/fighting. Today, believe it or not, I have none of that for extremely long stretches of my life. And - I am still the mother of 2 alcoholic/addicts and the wife of an alcoholic/addict. 2 of the 3 are sober, working their own program which did not bring harmony in our family (yet) but did bring peace and hope.
I pray you have a super peaceful evening and feel that Al-Anon is a gentle program with loving support and kindness. Keep coming back - you are not alone and there is always hope and help!
DavidG said
Aug 3, 2018
Thanks Iam...
I think the point is...
...that what is happening with A Nother- is happening right now.
And we have all bin there- one time or another. Many times sometimes.
We have a member here- who is thinking on her feet- through real tough stuff!
I believe that our sharing should reflect this... I believe that this reflects enormously- on the ESH and power of the group... ...
Courageous move, Nother...
you have hub's, and his mum's, narrative... which does not mean it is true- just true for them...
we learn to find our own truth, in Alanon, by working together- and sometimes finding peace and serenity when alone.
Your thread here- is in effect a mini-meeting... where you have called the topic.
When I look at the responses, including yours... I feel immensely proud- of the group- and of alanon too... [brings tears of joy to my eyes].
Step one is hard and painful... I liken it to a thorn under the skin- once the thorn is out the body can heal.
So immensely proud... and so grateful- that there are hints of hope in this world...
...
Aw, thanks A.
...
I think you are in exactly the right place...
...
I think you have the capacity to find your own way through...
...
&...
if hubs is an alcoholic- he will not be able to moderate his drinking... well, not for too long, anyway...
As you will realise- unlike other illnesses- there is no foolproof test for alcoholism...
So if a partner has to opportunity to moderate- this is one way of finding out...
Alanon is about just taking care of ourselves... also having the strength and support to take care of kids- dependents...
and it puts us in a much better space to make day to day decisions- without anxiety, or pressure.
One day at a time...
...
...and keep coming back- it does work if we work at it...
...
People are advised to attend six meetings- to check things out.
Attending here... in a group like this- does cover a lot of ground... But I would give it six weeks... just to see what happens.
Getting feedback to members here- is a great gift... we do form strong bonds of trust... ... we do care... and hearing back it just great!
It is a mild afternoon here- late winter- where I am sitting... must go out a prune my grape vines...
...
CoDA could be a place you look into, but I'm not so sure they actually discuss and address the disease of alcoholism like Al-Anon does. And I find the Al-Anon principles do a very good job of addressing co-dependence.
Al-Anon is for people who have a problem with someone else's drinking. You more than qualify to attend Al-Anon meetings.
Your husband drinks because he is an alcoholic. NOT because you put pressure on him. That is a typical blame-game alcoholics play with their loved ones. "I wouldn't drink so much if you would just..."
Other reasons alcoholics drink:
- They want to celebrate
- They want to wind down
- They deserve it
- They're irritated
- They're happy
- They're bored
- They're thirsty
- Someone made them mad
- Someone paid them a compliment
- It's a special holiday
- It's Friday
- It's Monday
- It's cold out
- It's hot out
- The sun is shining
- Just because...
Alcoholism is a spiritual disease. A disease of the mind. Alcoholics typically cannot cope with life on life's terms so they turn to alcohol to escape reality. If they have the physical allergy to alcohol, they become addicted. Physically.
I had an alcoholic who is in recovery explain to me once that when he first quit drinking, his body was screaming at him to have a drink.
Have you ever been extremely hungry? I mean really, really hungry - like you forgot to eat all day, or outside circumstances made it impossible to eat something? I picture that feeling I get when I'm ravenous as maybe a slight insight to what the alcoholic is going through when they try to not drink without any support. I'm irritable - downright hostile at times because all I can feel is my body screaming at me to eat something and all I want to do is get some food in me.
Another thing a recovering alcoholic told me is that it scares them to think of not ever being able to drink again. Your husband said "He can't see himself living the rest of his life without alcohol". I would say it sounds like he's got a problem.
Alcoholics drink It's what they do.
I really hope you get to some face-to-face Al-Anon meetings. Go to al-anon.org to find meetings near you. Get to at least six before you decide if Al-Anon is for you or not.
Best of luck to you.
OMG...Aloha, your share was so great , I had to read it more than once to savor the wisdom....THANK you for helping me learn yet more about this horrid disease..and oh yea, if a leaf falls of a tree, they gotta drink...and I think my brother is drinking himself to death because parents were relatively "OK" with him, yet they nearly killed me and DID drive our other brother to suicide, so "R" can't face life w/out being drunk....and I agree...I think he is scared to face life sober..w/out his "crutch" or "liquid courage".....he told me flat out "I will never quit drinking...I feel good when I drink" yea, he feels "good" because he is too zoned out for life to "bother" him with bad memories and such......thank you again for your OH so powerful share.....I truly got a lot out of it....and yea, it made me feel some compassion for the slavery they must be in...No!! I will never be with one again...No!! I will never even date or hang out with one again, but I DO feel compassion for the spirit that is in 80 proof chains..........
YES, our David...You ARE so NICE!!!!!
Hey Nother: If this were me, I would not go...My ExAH #1 used to "drag" me to functions where there would be drinking (I confess, I drank, too, but was more interested in the food) anyway, he would insult me, put me down, just be a jerk and folks did think, some of them, that maybe I was an irritant to him..somehow his buddies and family incorrectly figured it was something wrong with me...so I quit going...let him go by himself, THEN they saw what a jerk he was....inappropriate remarks to the female guests...sarcastic , and by himself...NOT with me...so the family just didn't say anything but they SAW...the friends?? all of a sudden I had supporters where at first I did not...MY friends were never invited to these family things, so i was the lone ranger as far as allies were concerned...well, after a few of his horror shows with his big, nasty mouth, they realized that it was NOT me....
I quit going to functions with him and never regretted my decisions.....So, I support you...follow your gut instincts..follow what your HP within you is saying and bollix to the rest of them
I think there are two reasons that narrative of "He wouldn't drink if I didn't [fill in the blank]" is so powerful.
One is that it's so enticing to believe that we have some control over their drinking - that we are involved in any way, even if it's not a good way - that we have an influence of some kind. But the thing is that let's say he feels stressed by your behavior and his impulse is then to drink. He has umpteen other choices of how to respond to behavior he finds stressful. He could go into therapy and learn to set boundaries. He could join a self-help group and learn how to cope with stress. He could join a gym and work out to de-stress. He could join a sports league and play sports to de-stress. He could play poker. (But avoid gambling excessively!) He could go fishing with his buddies. He could put together model airplanes. He could play computer games. He could join a fantasy sports league. He could join AA. He could decide that you could both separate. But he has chosen drinking above all these options. Why? Because alcoholism produces its own compulsion to drink. Once it starts, it's like a runaway train.
The second reason it's so tempting to believe that you're the cause is that he probably believes it himself. My A had a series of reasons why he "had" to drink. He felt stressed because he wasn't making much money. Then he was making more money, but he felt stressed because the work was too much pressure. Then the work eased off, and he felt stressed because his mother was getting on his case. Then his mother turned her attention to other things, and he felt stressed because I didn't like his drinking. Then we split up, but he felt stressed by... I think he sincerely believed that each of these situations was out of his control and "made" him drink. And he just had to wait till that miraculous time when nothing in his life was at all troublesome, and he wouldn't drink. But you know, millions of us have difficult lives and don't try to "solve" the problem by drinking. This blaming of other people is all part of the alcoholic's syndrome of acting as if he's controlled by outside events. That's one of the reasons one of the fundamental tools of AA (and of Al-Anon) is to examine: "What is my part in it?" That's a question that alcoholics desperately avoid.
It's easy enough to check whether you're responsible for his drinking - you can easily stop the so-called behavior that "causes" it. My guess is that if you stop blaming him, he may appear to stop drinking (because he wants to make that scenario look true), but soon it will become clear that he's still doing it. If you split up, there will be some reason it's still your fault. ("You pressured me for too many years ... you're not supporting me ... you split up with me and so I have to drink ... you won't give me the bureau and the coffee table ... I miss the dog ..." - whatever.) It will go on until he finds something else to blame.
Hugs. None of this is easy.
You did not cause it -- it being the drinking. Of course he is sure of it!!! And you are buying into it. This is what alcoholics do -- they blame, use guilt, manipulation, love, threats, anger, begging, pleading, deflection, martyrism, victimization, and anything else they can, to accomplish two things...one is to keep drinking. Status quo. They want to drink and not have anything get in the way of them drinking. And, two, to keep the focus off their drinking. They don't want it to be a big deal. They want us to accept it. They don't want it to be the focal point -- so what is then? Everyone and everything else!!! This is the baffling, cunning, insidious, enigmatic, progressive, and confusing nature of this disease! Of course he wants you to lighten up!!! So his drinking is not a problem!!! He is not right!!!
It doesn't matter what you did, said, or whatever. You did not cause it. It has nothing to do with pressure, binges, beer, wine, shots, work, home, or whatever. His drinking is on and about him -- it's a disease. It's up to him to get better. However, it doesn't matter...don't focus on him. Focus on YOU.
Just know...you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it. This is why you have to go to meetings, face to face, conference approved alanon meetings.
That said, this is ludicrous. He is willing to give up drinking for a few months, while you learn "these techniques" as you call it? So he gives up drinking for a few months while you learn to be OK with his drinking. In all due respect -- your thinking is so distorted and you need to get to a face to face meeting ASAP. That is not what alanon is about. You've explained the theories to him? Again, this is not about you explaining to him how you want to get better, if in fact you do. I don't know what it is you are hoping for. Maybe that's something you need to figure out. If you want to get better, alanon is for you. It is not for you to explain alanon to him so that he understands what you are learning and when you are done, he can go back to drinking because you will be OK with it. He can't see himself going the rest of his life without drinking. What about you? Can you see yourself going the rest of your life with him and his drinking?
All the best.
Oh boy! Gross expressions of cross-talk!
A Nother is a new member- on Step One! Hey!
I read your post Aloha and bit my tongue. But now Mattie and Bo!
I am not saying you are wrong. I am not saying that A Nother is wrong... this was NOTHER'S share- but I think it has been hi-jacked.
I believe that the leadership here should call a conscience meeting- on the business board. Not a good look here.
...
Tradition 8. Al-Anon Twelfth Step work should remain forever non-professional, but our service centres may employ special workers.
None of us is qualified to determine who is, or isn't an alcoholic. Especially not someone we have never met!
In theory, even the family member does not have that right. This is the call of the family member themself. Or between the family member and a health professional.
In Alanon I was always told- we can offer opinions- when asked. But we do not offer advice.
Our sister and new member A Nother asked us especially to be gentle. I believe we should respect this. To listen before we leap!
Take care y'all... one day at a time.
DavidG.
He text me at 4pm to say that he's decided not to come home tonight. I said, ok see you tomorrow. What I wanted to say was, I've got my first Al anon meeting tomorrow at 11.30. it is 2 hours long, and I need the car.
All the best.
Good moves Nother... this is a 24 hours programme... it is a tough road, especially in the first week!
This is a tight, strong group... come midday, Nother, you might be in a meeting f2f. But you may not- uncertain...
every single member here reading is rooting for you... we should never feel alone.
Sorry I have become a bit dependent on this board this week. All of the replies have helped, even the ones David thought was harsh. I know I'm posting verbal rubbish. I have found your perspective so helpful (I can't begin to explain how helpful).
I recognise that you have a system here, so I will not post on this thread again, but I will post new ones which deal with specific things and not this Mish mash.
hmmm... I think you broke new ground...
...you are smart... and confident... I have huge respect for your comments.
We all have opinions and at times, they are expressed through the lens of the sharing person. I believe it is always important to recognize and accept that no matter how long one is in recovery - one day or years and years, we are all equals. We are not to pass judgement, give advice, direct another, etc. We also live and share with an understanding of 'take what you like and leave the rest' - which allows us to consider what is shared but discard if it's not applicable to our situation.
I also think it's important to remember that we are all here because we've all been affected by this disease in another we care about - family or friend. For me, that means my definition of serenity may be different than yours or David's or (insert member here). My definition of serenity has also changed from my first week to present day. In the beginning, I was grateful for an hour without drama/chaos/fighting. Today, believe it or not, I have none of that for extremely long stretches of my life. And - I am still the mother of 2 alcoholic/addicts and the wife of an alcoholic/addict. 2 of the 3 are sober, working their own program which did not bring harmony in our family (yet) but did bring peace and hope.
I pray you have a super peaceful evening and feel that Al-Anon is a gentle program with loving support and kindness. Keep coming back - you are not alone and there is always hope and help!
I think the point is...
...that what is happening with A Nother- is happening right now.
And we have all bin there- one time or another. Many times sometimes.
We have a member here- who is thinking on her feet- through real tough stuff!
I believe that our sharing should reflect this... I believe that this reflects enormously- on the ESH and power of the group...
...