Stay Or Run: How to know if your partner is serious about recovery.
hotrod said
Apr 17, 2017
I agree competely BO
Bo said
Apr 17, 2017
hotrod wrote:
I agree competely BO
Thank you. Unfortunately, I think this is something that both a lot of newcomers, and seasoned people, miss. It's a blind spot. Focusing on the other person is very different than seeing a reality and then focusing on you. In addition, I am not one to get caught up in never-ending, circular, etc., analysis and the like. That can ultimately become paralysis by analysis and denial. If the other person is serious, genuine, authentic, and truly wants to be clean and sober, wants and lives a life of recovery...it's obvious. Even if they have many slips. Doesn't matter. It's still obvious. Who are they being.
Now, with the nonstop, frequent, constant slips, etc. -- even if that person is being authentic, genuine, etc., even if they do all the right things and make all the right moves...each case, each person, is different...but at a certain point...I, you, us, might have to say...is this the way I want to live my life?
hotrod said
Apr 17, 2017
I agree and we also must remember that people are not ready to ask themselves that question until they have been in program for a time and have developed new tools to live by. Being willing to accept the painful reality of what they find is difficult that is why program and meetings are so important . Many take a long time to reach that point and so that is why alanon is considered a gentle program, as we do not give advise and understand that we are all works in progress.
Many of my family entered program found a little relief and left because they did not want to do the hard work that recovery required. There is always hope and help.
Helpangel said
Apr 18, 2017
Hi there! Thank you so much for posting this. I am wondering if I shared what you wrote to my ah, if it would help enlighten the alcoholic and tell them that I don't think he is serious about sobriety bc he does do what you have written. Mine seems to learn very slow but keeps trying to stay sober. It's like he has a road block and his mind or him just doesn't see everything clearly. Just wondering if he knew this if it would help or do you think it is something they have to figure out on their own.
shrnp said
Apr 18, 2017
Helpangel and others,
The way this post was written bothered me because I am a recovering alcoholic/drug addict. I did not think in Alanon we were suppose to talk about an alcoholics recovery or recovery program in this manner. The only way I can explain is that people in AA do not talk about what people are doing in Alanon or how Alanon members are acting and why. Not to my knowledge anyway. Not in a meeting, maybe a personal conversation between friends. If a partner or spouse attended an AA meeting and said, " I have been in the Alanon program for years and the reason people in Alanon act a certain way is because of this or that , and made a list that would be wrong and intrusive. It borders on taking away anonymity and being judgmental. If that was what the Alanon program was about, I would not be a part of it. I do not think you should mention this post to your husband Helpangel. You can suggest the AA program or even suggest something for him to read, but my personal feelings are that this program is for figuring out yourself and how you can use this program to make your life better while living with an alcoholic. Someone else may have a different opinion and different advice though.
hotrod said
Apr 18, 2017
I agree Sharon. It is important to remember that the opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who expressed them and not gospel.
Alcoholism is a disease over which we are powerless and all this analyzing is not a substitute for accepting the disease concept as well as the principles set out in the AA Big Book. The section to" Wives" is very helpful.
Posting to the Board and sharing our ESH is helpful because we can develop new tools to live by and new awareness . By doing this we can then practice the alanon program by keeping the focus on ourselves, and examining our own responses and actions.
hotrod said
Apr 18, 2017
Hi again. Sharon you and i posted together and i wanted to add that I agree completely with your posting
Glad you are here..
Iamhere said
Apr 18, 2017
I hear you too Sharon and I also agree. With almost 30 years sobriety in AA, a list of defects for another person has not enhanced, affected or improved the affects of the disease for the AA member of the Al-Anon member. For me, whenever I look at others for the root cause and/or the solution, I have drifted from my center and my spiritual program.
I was a huge black/white thinker BR (Before Recovery) and also over-analyzed everything - looks at statistics and facts and drew conclusions that mostly benefited me (ego). I've been able to change much of that by remembering there is one who has all power and it's not me!!
QTIP comes to mind for me when there are judgments made about A(s). I find the most peace when I remember we are all imperfect people each with a higher power living in an imperfect world. As I consider the list, it might better be consider as potential warning signs for relapse which is discussed often for those in recovery and/or treatment. Just a thought...
2HP said
Apr 18, 2017
It's comical to come back and watch us in action, all of us doing what we al-anons do............. we just want to "help"
lol
I have a vivid memory of being at a retreat where we all sat around a bonfire and joined together, we sang, "arm in arm in LOVE we go, onward to the kingdom....."
so memorable with the moon and stars... the flutes and conga drums... celebrating our shared unity.
Naughty or good, we are God's children. I'm so glad I'm not alone (((group hug)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Tuesday 18th of April 2017 12:55:04 PM
shrnp said
Apr 18, 2017
Sometimes I am really strict. The part of the program's anonymity is a big thing for me. I will talk about my own recovery or my As recovery. Even though, this is an online forum, what we hear or observe in meetings should really stay there.
Junenine said
Apr 18, 2017
Thank you for this, 2XW. I fully appreciate your comments and the discussion that follows. Thank you for your experience and insight.
Bo said
Apr 20, 2017
hotrod wrote:
I agree and we also must remember that people are not ready to ask themselves that question until they have been in program for a time and have developed new tools to live by. Being willing to accept the painful reality of what they find is difficult that is why program and meetings are so important . Many take a long time to reach that point and so that is why alanon is considered a gentle program, as we do not give advise and understand that we are all works in progress.
Many of my family entered program found a little relief and left because they did not want to do the hard work that recovery required. There is always hope and help.
Absolutely, without question. I've always said that those types of questions "come later" so to speak. Why? A person needs to get better, get healthy -- so that when they do ask those questions, the answers come from a position and mindset of strength, intellect, being healthy, quality thinking, etc. -- not weakness, fear, duress, unhealthy, and so on.
It can take a very long time to arrive there -- and many people will never arrive there. That's OK. People handle what they handle the way they handle it. To each their own and that is very much why alanon is a safe, welcoming, accepting place. Just my take, LOL.
Doing the work -- I hear you. I've often said to people -- I will go to hell WITH you...but I can't go to hell FOR you. Ironically, many times, the journey is not to hell, and it is not as bad as initially thought. Discussions for another time.
Thank you. Unfortunately, I think this is something that both a lot of newcomers, and seasoned people, miss. It's a blind spot. Focusing on the other person is very different than seeing a reality and then focusing on you. In addition, I am not one to get caught up in never-ending, circular, etc., analysis and the like. That can ultimately become paralysis by analysis and denial. If the other person is serious, genuine, authentic, and truly wants to be clean and sober, wants and lives a life of recovery...it's obvious. Even if they have many slips. Doesn't matter. It's still obvious. Who are they being.
Now, with the nonstop, frequent, constant slips, etc. -- even if that person is being authentic, genuine, etc., even if they do all the right things and make all the right moves...each case, each person, is different...but at a certain point...I, you, us, might have to say...is this the way I want to live my life?
I agree and we also must remember that people are not ready to ask themselves that question until they have been in program for a time and have developed new tools to live by. Being willing to accept the painful reality of what they find is difficult that is why program and meetings are so important . Many take a long time to reach that point and so that is why alanon is considered a gentle program, as we do not give advise and understand that we are all works in progress.
Many of my family entered program found a little relief and left because they did not want to do the hard work that recovery required. There is always hope and help.
The way this post was written bothered me because I am a recovering alcoholic/drug addict. I did not think in Alanon we were suppose to talk about an alcoholics recovery or recovery program in this manner. The only way I can explain is that people in AA do not talk about what people are doing in Alanon or how Alanon members are acting and why. Not to my knowledge anyway. Not in a meeting, maybe a personal conversation between friends. If a partner or spouse attended an AA meeting and said, " I have been in the Alanon program for years and the reason people in Alanon act a certain way is because of this or that , and made a list that would be wrong and intrusive. It borders on taking away anonymity and being judgmental. If that was what the Alanon program was about, I would not be a part of it. I do not think you should mention this post to your husband Helpangel. You can suggest the AA program or even suggest something for him to read, but my personal feelings are that this program is for figuring out yourself and how you can use this program to make your life better while living with an alcoholic. Someone else may have a different opinion and different advice though.
I agree Sharon. It is important to remember that the opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who expressed them and not gospel.
Alcoholism is a disease over which we are powerless and all this analyzing is not a substitute for accepting the disease concept as well as the principles set out in the AA Big Book. The section to" Wives" is very helpful.
Posting to the Board and sharing our ESH is helpful because we can develop new tools to live by and new awareness . By doing this we can then practice the alanon program by keeping the focus on ourselves, and examining our own responses and actions.
Glad you are here..
I was a huge black/white thinker BR (Before Recovery) and also over-analyzed everything - looks at statistics and facts and drew conclusions that mostly benefited me (ego). I've been able to change much of that by remembering there is one who has all power and it's not me!!
QTIP comes to mind for me when there are judgments made about A(s). I find the most peace when I remember we are all imperfect people each with a higher power living in an imperfect world. As I consider the list, it might better be consider as potential warning signs for relapse which is discussed often for those in recovery and/or treatment. Just a thought...
It's comical to come back and watch us in action, all of us doing what we al-anons do............. we just want to "help"
lol
I have a vivid memory of being at a retreat where we all sat around a bonfire and joined together, we sang, "arm in arm in LOVE we go, onward to the kingdom....."
so memorable with the moon and stars... the flutes and conga drums... celebrating our shared unity.
Naughty or good, we are God's children. I'm so glad I'm not alone (((group hug)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Tuesday 18th of April 2017 12:55:04 PM
Thank you for this, 2XW. I fully appreciate your comments and the discussion that follows. Thank you for your experience and insight.
Absolutely, without question. I've always said that those types of questions "come later" so to speak. Why? A person needs to get better, get healthy -- so that when they do ask those questions, the answers come from a position and mindset of strength, intellect, being healthy, quality thinking, etc. -- not weakness, fear, duress, unhealthy, and so on.
It can take a very long time to arrive there -- and many people will never arrive there. That's OK. People handle what they handle the way they handle it. To each their own and that is very much why alanon is a safe, welcoming, accepting place. Just my take, LOL.
Doing the work -- I hear you. I've often said to people -- I will go to hell WITH you...but I can't go to hell FOR you. Ironically, many times, the journey is not to hell, and it is not as bad as initially thought. Discussions for another time.