(((Hugs))) - sending positive thoughts and prayers to you both. Way back in the day, my family disowned me (when I was a wild child AND beginning my disease). It was confusing, painful and maddening - my brothers would see me out and about - we lived in a medium town, went to the same HS, hung at the same places, etc. and they would act as if they did not know me...
It was not slight either - others would ask them or I what was up. It lasted 3+ years and the damage has been improved dramatically. It's been more than 35 years and still - with one brother - the feelings run deep. Those who would listen to me process vs. pick a side were the most hopeful and how true that has remained in my life.
Glad that he's looking to get help with this - good on him for wanting a different outcome!
KennyFenderjazz said
Dec 6, 2016
So sorry to hear about your husband's pain. it too shall pass, especially if he works it out with a therapist or group. Glad to hear your are having a healthy amount of ownership too.
Kenny
andromeda said
Dec 6, 2016
Hugs, Mark! It's hard to watch our loved ones work through their pain but so glad you understand that it's not always about you.
2HP said
Dec 6, 2016
Your post is emphasizing my own history... how I demanded my (former) husband to stand with me in defense against his family who was very cruel to me. After I was out of the picture (post divorce) he united with them. I hear they get together more than we ever did.
Today I am in a new relationship... with a new family.... with the same scenario.
My partner is an immigrant from another country... they speak a different language... they never liked his previous American girlfriends or spouse... and they don't seem to like me. They exclude me, make fun of me... and expect me to learn their language even though they do speak English.
Here is what I got out of your post..... when I talk to my partner about his family and tell him how awful they are for treating me so poorly, I realize how sad he is too. He becomes quiet. And I feel the pull to convince him further, exert MORE power.
His family has the power to frighten me even though their behavior is about THEM, not me. But when I feel rejected by them, on some level I must be rejecting myself and expect my partner to save the day, protect me from your evil family. Your post reminds me that when emotional security and self-esteem and personal relationships get stirred up in ME....... that's when I act out in selfish, self-seeking, dishonest and fearful ways. Your post is reminding me that it's never about THEM and me, rather, it's always about God and me.... like, God asking me to have more faith in myself instead of giving that power and responsibility to my partner. It didn't work last time either, no human power is meant to relieve me, looking for a higher power outside of ME.
But wow, it is a spiritual challenge. I remember I once told him, why don't you go visit your family alone and I'll just stay home. He kinda agreed that it would be a way to keep more peace in the world......
I slugged him in the arm, "WRONG ANSWER!!!"
Starting my inventory now ((hugs))
-- Edited by 2HP on Tuesday 6th of December 2016 01:29:32 PM
maryjane said
Dec 6, 2016
Thank you 2HP. I had it happen to me too. His family just didn't think I fit with their family. I always thought it was because I was the wrong religion (Prot) and came from the wrong part of Western Europe, and I didn't drink like good Irish Catholics..... and I made them feel guilty about their drinking. I know now that I never made them feel guilty. Are you kidding?!!!!! My FIL said to me, "I don't mind so much that my son married a ...... but I do mind that my grandchildren are ........"
But I did want to feel accepted and I never was. I was fortunate that "I gave up".
I didn't see his family unless there were lots of others around to be a buffer. I never was around his dad by myself.
I was able to find a lot of gratitude for his mom (non-drinker but huge enabler) that helped me out because I wanted my kids to have grandparents on that side of the family, so she would accept the challenge of seeing her grandkids while protecting them from grandpa and his alcoholic attitude for a few hours. Eventually the kids grew old enough to ask to not HAVE to go over there any more.
I was able to keep my mouth shut around the other siblings on the AH side of the family.
And.... my AH has always denied any of this ever happened.... Even after 16 years of sobriety.
Pink, It may get resolved with the hubby, but you can be happy no matter what happens. It is between you and your self-esteem..... you and your HP.
Take care of yourself.
tiredtonite said
Dec 7, 2016
Thanks 2HP and
Maryanne. I really relate to your posts. There just are no "perfect" families. Expectations are premeditated resentments. I've experienced the family dynamics that you have described. It's always about me. Why do I internalize it? It's OK to be disappointed, to wish it was more loving between us but there's also a time to accept things for what they are. I can be respectful of family members who don't like me, act cordial and exhibit personal dignity and self respect when interacting with them. I have nothing to prove. My higher power is the judge of how I am doing. Staying in the moment and putting the god of my understanding in front of me when I'm communicating with others is very important. It works when I work it. Oh if I could only work it consistently
It's sad for my partner too Pinkchip. Alcoholism in the family seems to go hand in hand with estrangement. We suit up show up and do the best we can to work a program. We limit our time, have a plan B in place and focus on our own behavior and detach from the unhealthy behavior of others by going for a walk, excusing ourselves to play with the kids, excusing ourselves to help in the kitchen etc. I am trying to be mindful not to complain as much about how they treat me. He knows. Sure, I have a right to my feelings but I love him and he is experiencing it too. We arm ourselves with program before we show up. We read daily readings with one another before leaving our house and make an agreement to leave if either of us is uncomfortable. We check in with one another during the visit and try not to be separated from one another too much. It's a sad picture I know but this is the reality of our family situation. We try to change the subject from gossip about others to positive conversation when we can. Fortunately, it's only for a short time. What's helped me is trying to see good qualities in others and directly telling them in spite of how they themselves are behaving. I realize this is hard to do when resentment is rearing it's ugly head but it's about sanity and survival for me. Also when people's behaviors begin to change for the worse due to drinking, we go home. We are in recovery - him in AA and me in Alanon. We feel right removing ourselves. We owe to ourselves.
I hope if things don't improve, you and your husband find a unified and workable plan for interacting with his family. (((hugs)))) TT
cwya said
Dec 8, 2016
Great share tired tonite. I was never blessed with a partner I could have such a relationship with and now its unlikely I will due to my age and disability. But it is refreshing to hear about such a functional relationship and it is possible to have one. You seem truly fortunate to have a partner willing to grow in recovery with you. An alcoholic in recovery that I respect told me that "water always seeks its own level." In other words that I attract partners who share my own dysfunctions. I'm not sure how true this is since I never did to someone else what others have done to me. I may attract abusers since I was abused but I dont think that means I'm also an abuser.
andromeda said
Dec 9, 2016
Speaking of families who don't accept us.......
My father in law didn't come to my wedding to my XAH because we chose to not get married in the Catholic church. When we were deciding which church to get married in, my XAH had taken me to his church and it was Pentecost Sunday and the whole service was being done in Latin and when I got up to go take communion, he told me I couldn't go. Coming from a Protestant religion, I was hurt and felt shamed in a church! I remember sitting there crying because I felt that God was rejecting me and I asked him if we could chose a different church. He agreed although he laughed at the fact that I cried during the service.
And, eventually, once we moved out of state, every time I took my son to go visit family my XAH wouldn't come with us. He didn't get along with his own family but I chose to bury the hatchet and I wanted them to have a relationship with our son so I took our son back east every year to visit the in laws while my XAH got to stay home and rest.
I completely forgot about all this crazy dysfunction stuff until I read 2HP's story above.
pinkchip said
Dec 9, 2016
Husband attended first therapy session. As we are settling back into the week, anger at his mom is dying down and it is becoming clear his brother is really sick and getting worse. MIL sent more disturbing texts about BIL pilfering money from her. I helped husband by intoducing him to some alanon tools. Instead if getting sucked into the specifics and craziness. I told him to just say feelings briefly and detach. So he basically wrote back "This makes me feel sad and frustrated. I am scared for you mom." MIL wrote back more damning stuff about BIL....and making us her power of attorney. It's such a sticky situation. Powder keg.
Iamhere said
Dec 9, 2016
(((Pinkchip))) - I am sorry you all are going through this. Continued thoughts and prayers for all of you....
LinSC said
Dec 9, 2016
I am not glad this all happened, but it seems it had to happen to reveal really whats going on and to keep MIL safe.
Out of this bad weekend, may come something good and hopefully a healthy family relationship.
It was not slight either - others would ask them or I what was up. It lasted 3+ years and the damage has been improved dramatically. It's been more than 35 years and still - with one brother - the feelings run deep. Those who would listen to me process vs. pick a side were the most hopeful and how true that has remained in my life.
Glad that he's looking to get help with this - good on him for wanting a different outcome!
Kenny
Your post is emphasizing my own history... how I demanded my (former) husband to stand with me in defense against his family who was very cruel to me. After I was out of the picture (post divorce) he united with them. I hear they get together more than we ever did.
Today I am in a new relationship... with a new family.... with the same scenario.
My partner is an immigrant from another country... they speak a different language... they never liked his previous American girlfriends or spouse... and they don't seem to like me. They exclude me, make fun of me... and expect me to learn their language even though they do speak English.
Here is what I got out of your post..... when I talk to my partner about his family and tell him how awful they are for treating me so poorly, I realize how sad he is too. He becomes quiet. And I feel the pull to convince him further, exert MORE power.
His family has the power to frighten me even though their behavior is about THEM, not me. But when I feel rejected by them, on some level I must be rejecting myself and expect my partner to save the day, protect me from your evil family. Your post reminds me that when emotional security and self-esteem and personal relationships get stirred up in ME....... that's when I act out in selfish, self-seeking, dishonest and fearful ways. Your post is reminding me that it's never about THEM and me, rather, it's always about God and me.... like, God asking me to have more faith in myself instead of giving that power and responsibility to my partner. It didn't work last time either, no human power is meant to relieve me, looking for a higher power outside of ME.
But wow, it is a spiritual challenge. I remember I once told him, why don't you go visit your family alone and I'll just stay home. He kinda agreed that it would be a way to keep more peace in the world......
I slugged him in the arm, "WRONG ANSWER!!!"
Starting my inventory now ((hugs))
-- Edited by 2HP on Tuesday 6th of December 2016 01:29:32 PM
But I did want to feel accepted and I never was. I was fortunate that "I gave up".
I didn't see his family unless there were lots of others around to be a buffer. I never was around his dad by myself.
I was able to find a lot of gratitude for his mom (non-drinker but huge enabler) that helped me out because I wanted my kids to have grandparents on that side of the family, so she would accept the challenge of seeing her grandkids while protecting them from grandpa and his alcoholic attitude for a few hours. Eventually the kids grew old enough to ask to not HAVE to go over there any more.
I was able to keep my mouth shut around the other siblings on the AH side of the family.
And.... my AH has always denied any of this ever happened.... Even after 16 years of sobriety.
Pink, It may get resolved with the hubby, but you can be happy no matter what happens. It is between you and your self-esteem..... you and your HP.
Take care of yourself.
Thanks 2HP and
Maryanne. I really relate to your posts. There just are no "perfect" families. Expectations are premeditated resentments. I've experienced the family dynamics that you have described. It's always about me. Why do I internalize it? It's OK to be disappointed, to wish it was more loving between us but there's also a time to accept things for what they are. I can be respectful of family members who don't like me, act cordial and exhibit personal dignity and self respect when interacting with them. I have nothing to prove. My higher power is the judge of how I am doing. Staying in the moment and putting the god of my understanding in front of me when I'm communicating with others is very important. It works when I work it. Oh if I could only work it consistently
It's sad for my partner too Pinkchip. Alcoholism in the family seems to go hand in hand with estrangement. We suit up show up and do the best we can to work a program. We limit our time, have a plan B in place and focus on our own behavior and detach from the unhealthy behavior of others by going for a walk, excusing ourselves to play with the kids, excusing ourselves to help in the kitchen etc. I am trying to be mindful not to complain as much about how they treat me. He knows. Sure, I have a right to my feelings but I love him and he is experiencing it too. We arm ourselves with program before we show up. We read daily readings with one another before leaving our house and make an agreement to leave if either of us is uncomfortable. We check in with one another during the visit and try not to be separated from one another too much. It's a sad picture I know but this is the reality of our family situation. We try to change the subject from gossip about others to positive conversation when we can. Fortunately, it's only for a short time. What's helped me is trying to see good qualities in others and directly telling them in spite of how they themselves are behaving. I realize this is hard to do when resentment is rearing it's ugly head but it's about sanity and survival for me. Also when people's behaviors begin to change for the worse due to drinking, we go home. We are in recovery - him in AA and me in Alanon. We feel right removing ourselves. We owe to ourselves.
I hope if things don't improve, you and your husband find a unified and workable plan for interacting with his family. (((hugs)))) TT
Great share tired tonite. I was never blessed with a partner I could have such a relationship with and now its unlikely I will due to my age and disability. But it is refreshing to hear about such a functional relationship and it is possible to have one. You seem truly fortunate to have a partner willing to grow in recovery with you. An alcoholic in recovery that I respect told me that "water always seeks its own level." In other words that I attract partners who share my own dysfunctions. I'm not sure how true this is since I never did to someone else what others have done to me. I may attract abusers since I was abused but I dont think that means I'm also an abuser.
My father in law didn't come to my wedding to my XAH because we chose to not get married in the Catholic church. When we were deciding which church to get married in, my XAH had taken me to his church and it was Pentecost Sunday and the whole service was being done in Latin and when I got up to go take communion, he told me I couldn't go. Coming from a Protestant religion, I was hurt and felt shamed in a church! I remember sitting there crying because I felt that God was rejecting me and I asked him if we could chose a different church. He agreed although he laughed at the fact that I cried during the service.
And, eventually, once we moved out of state, every time I took my son to go visit family my XAH wouldn't come with us. He didn't get along with his own family but I chose to bury the hatchet and I wanted them to have a relationship with our son so I took our son back east every year to visit the in laws while my XAH got to stay home and rest.
I completely forgot about all this crazy dysfunction stuff until I read 2HP's story above.
I am not glad this all happened, but it seems it had to happen to reveal really whats going on and to keep MIL safe.
Out of this bad weekend, may come something good and hopefully a healthy family relationship.
linsc