I am dealing with guilt over boundaries. Me and my husband are finally saying no to our adult alcoholic daughter and it is so hard because she knows how to push our buttons and make us feel bad cause in the past we didn't stand up to her.
She has been living in our house since getting out of jail in early May and hasn't done one darn thing to look for work or help around the house or clean up the debt she has or anything and then she comes home to ask could we help her with some money to go to California with her new boyfriend. She says her tickets are paid so hubby and I talk and agree we will give her a little cash but then the truth comes out that she needs us to buy her return ticket and then her ex says that the kids have said that if she leaves with this loser guy that she is in affect choosing him over them and it will damage their relationship even more and she doesn't seem to bat an eye about her choice. She is going cause it is her life is what she says. That is an alcoholic, right? Selfish to the core. I keep thinking I can reason with her but who am I kidding.
We will not buy her return ticket, we will not help her further alienate her kids and I feel guilty.
I need an al-anon meeting but live in a rural area and there aren't many so tonight I will read what I have and pray.
Thanks for listening.
mamalioness said
Jun 27, 2017
Hi Fun:
Great topic...boundaries.....FIRST i had to figure out who I am (doing the steps, meetings and sponsor work) THEN what will I accept...what will I not accept....and stand to it...
like abusive people...I make it very clear I will talk, negotiate with anyone but if abuse comes into the picture?? I am gone!! Game over!!!! and I make it clear AND the important part is backing up what I say
with my obnixious neighbor next door whose dog climbs up on the junk in his back yard and jumps over his fence and into my yard...I told him "one more incident and I wont' deal with your daughters cussing me out, I will call the animal shelter" well?? dog jumped over, I called the shelter and the city got after him for code violations and STILL the dog is getting up on stuff and peers over the fence growling at me and stuff....If she gets over??? I won't call the city b/c they are already on him, I will turn her loose and let them pay the consequences of fines for dog loose in neighborhood...she is microchipped so no getting out of that mess
I dont' want to be around people using or drinking...if I go somewhere, and there is drinking, I leave....if I'm asked why I left?? I merrely say that I don't want to drink or be around it....
boundaries is just my taking care of me, like an invisible fence around my circle i drew around my feet....healthy stuff is welcome to come inside the fence...unhealthy stuff, I lock out with a padlock and I stand to it.....
I put signs on my property...one of which is a "no solicitors" where I do NOT want salesman, religious groups, candy fundraiser, et al folks knocking on my door...the sign is right where you press the door button...CANT miss it...but every now and again they ring my doorbell...I don't answer....one time I was at my door getting ready to open the storm door to get my mail...these folks came up and rang the bell...they had bibles in their hands and I let down the top part so I coudl talk through the screen....I asked them if they spoke English..they said they did...I asked them if they could read...they said they could....I told them to read my sign that is just above that door bell.....i then shut the door.....
boundaries can be written, verbal, or body language...I try to observe others boundaries as well as take care of mine...if i am in the thrift shops looking for treasures, I try not to get into a person's "space" I NEVER touch anyone I don't know and just generally keeping to myself and not bothering others...
outside there is many times a guy who wants to "wash your car for a couple of dollars" and he seems to hit me up EVERY time I show up at that goodwill....the first 2 times, I politely told him "no thanks, my grandkids wash my car for part of their allowance" and I walk away....the 3rd time he tried to hit me up he was a bit more aggressive, telling me that he needed help, etc., (noted that he was very nicely dressed with new looking nike tennis shoes on) and I just told him to please do not bother me ever again as I let my kids wash my car an I only have enough money to barely take care of me and I don't want to be harrassed anymore.....i began to walk away and he started to FOLLOW me and I turned around and pointed at him and told him "do NOT follow me" (while I am grabbing an empty cart to shove at him if he came at me and scream my bloody head off) I think he sensed that I would defend and he backed off....I later told the mgrs. at GW about it and haven't seen him since...
boundaries is just me taking care of my space, my serenity, my peace, my rights to come and go and pursue my goals as long as I don't impinge upon another.....boundaries is not letting myself be abused, manipulated, demeaned, put down, or any other form of disrespect to me...the way I defend that boundary depends on who it is and what the situation is...even with my loved ones, I have my boundaries..I , of course, am more patient with someone I love, but even then--there are times I have to say I don't want such and such said or done or I will do xxxxxxxxxxx if it does not stop......
I hope this post made sense....my mind is scrambled tonight
Bo said
Jun 27, 2017
funandsun wrote:
I am relatively new to Alanon and have been focusing on boundaries with my ABF. I am wondering if some of you can share your boundaries that you have implemented? Thanks!
Welcome...I have always found boundaries to be a very powerful and effective tool -- when understood (by us, the person setting them), established, implemented, and honored (by us) properly! And I stress the last word -- properly -- because that is most important. First, I think the key is to understand what the goal and motivation should be. It should not be to get the other person to change. We can't change the other person, so, that is not what the boundary is for. It is not there for if they violate it -- it is there for when they violate it. It is not there for them. It is there for us.
Second, it cannot be punitive or a threat. For example -- when you drink or are drunk, I won't cook dinner for you. Or, when you are drunk, I am going to ignore you. Third, we have to honor the boundary...because the other person won't. At least not initially. It is there for us. High hopes and low expectations. My boundaries worked exceptionally well -- because I hoped she would not, but expected her to violate my boundary. Some people say a boundary should be a "IF/I will" format. There's no musts here, so to each their own.
So, my boundary was around "unacceptable behavior" and "unacceptable demands"...one boundary was..if you start yelling at me, calling me names, verbally attacking me, etc., I am going to politely leave the house. Another was the same, but if we were talking on the phone, I would politely hang up. Simply put, I wasn't going to get into this with her. I would not participate in a back and forth ping pong match. The way I looked at it -- if she hit me the ping pong ball, I would simply put down the paddle. She can't play ping pong with herself, because I put down the paddle. Another was over money -- if you ask me for money, I am going to politely say no and not engage in a "debate" as to why (it was never a question of whether or not I had the money and could afford it -- I simply chose not to because she was giving all her money to her heroin addict son, enabling him, etc. -- so I wouldn't give her money and be involved in that).
For a seasoned person in al-anon, it is easy to establish a boundary around any situation. The hard part for many is establishing it the proper and healthy way -- check your motives, that will keep you honest and healthy -- and the honoring it. We should honor it -- it is there to protect us. It is healthy for us. It can bring about major improvements in many aspects of our lives.
Iamhere said
Jun 28, 2017
In my program, I have been taught that boundaries are for self-protection and self-preservation. If I am uncomfortable in any situation, I have the choice to disengage and depart. Boundaries are for me to protect my serenity at all times - safety too of course.
Boundaries are not punitive or hurtful. There is no judgement of another person, place or thing. Reminding myself often that I am a child of a HP who has a master plan AND wants me and others to be happy, joyous and free helps me detach and enforce my boundaries.
So, my boundaries are all I statements:
- When I am uncomfortable, I will detach and depart.
- As a person in recovery, I choose to have a substance free home.
- As a person in recovery, I choose to avoid others under the influence.
- I am not a bank, a bail bondsman, or a hotel.
My boundaries are constant and consistent. They are not unique to those I love that brought me to Al-Anon. They apply to me and my life/serenity. I strive to treat all people with courtesy and respect. It is my children, who are part of my qualifiers, that suggested I treated them different than others. I had to take a hard look at that, and they were right. This was my issue to work out as I had resentments towards them AND higher expectations of them.
So - keeping it as simple as possible, considering who I am and what my triggers are and then determining what I can/can not live with is how it came to be for me. The program, a sponsor and the steps really gave me the necessary insight to be successful with boundaries. As I grow and learn more about me, I continue to refine my boundaries. HTH - (((hugs)))
Bo said
Jun 28, 2017
Yes, self-protection and self-preservation...oh do I agree. Early on, and even today, I check my motives -- for everything. Whether I make a comment, give an opinion, say something, etc. When I first started setting boundaries, deep down, there was still a hint, just a whiff, of maybe this will get her to stop. And, the boundaries didn't work.
When I dropped that -- they worked for me. I love keep it simple.
SunnyFrogs said
May 23, 2020
I'm just bumping this thread up so it's easier to find. I don't have time to read all of it right now.
I am dealing with guilt over boundaries. Me and my husband are finally saying no to our adult alcoholic daughter and it is so hard because she knows how to push our buttons and make us feel bad cause in the past we didn't stand up to her.
She has been living in our house since getting out of jail in early May and hasn't done one darn thing to look for work or help around the house or clean up the debt she has or anything and then she comes home to ask could we help her with some money to go to California with her new boyfriend. She says her tickets are paid so hubby and I talk and agree we will give her a little cash but then the truth comes out that she needs us to buy her return ticket and then her ex says that the kids have said that if she leaves with this loser guy that she is in affect choosing him over them and it will damage their relationship even more and she doesn't seem to bat an eye about her choice. She is going cause it is her life is what she says. That is an alcoholic, right? Selfish to the core. I keep thinking I can reason with her but who am I kidding.
We will not buy her return ticket, we will not help her further alienate her kids and I feel guilty.
I need an al-anon meeting but live in a rural area and there aren't many so tonight I will read what I have and pray.
Thanks for listening.
Hi Fun:
Great topic...boundaries.....FIRST i had to figure out who I am (doing the steps, meetings and sponsor work) THEN what will I accept...what will I not accept....and stand to it...
like abusive people...I make it very clear I will talk, negotiate with anyone but if abuse comes into the picture?? I am gone!! Game over!!!! and I make it clear AND the important part is backing up what I say
with my obnixious neighbor next door whose dog climbs up on the junk in his back yard and jumps over his fence and into my yard...I told him "one more incident and I wont' deal with your daughters cussing me out, I will call the animal shelter" well?? dog jumped over, I called the shelter and the city got after him for code violations and STILL the dog is getting up on stuff and peers over the fence growling at me and stuff....If she gets over??? I won't call the city b/c they are already on him, I will turn her loose and let them pay the consequences of fines for dog loose in neighborhood...she is microchipped so no getting out of that mess
I dont' want to be around people using or drinking...if I go somewhere, and there is drinking, I leave....if I'm asked why I left?? I merrely say that I don't want to drink or be around it....
boundaries is just my taking care of me, like an invisible fence around my circle i drew around my feet....healthy stuff is welcome to come inside the fence...unhealthy stuff, I lock out with a padlock and I stand to it.....
I put signs on my property...one of which is a "no solicitors" where I do NOT want salesman, religious groups, candy fundraiser, et al folks knocking on my door...the sign is right where you press the door button...CANT miss it...but every now and again they ring my doorbell...I don't answer....one time I was at my door getting ready to open the storm door to get my mail...these folks came up and rang the bell...they had bibles in their hands and I let down the top part so I coudl talk through the screen....I asked them if they spoke English..they said they did...I asked them if they could read...they said they could....I told them to read my sign that is just above that door bell.....i then shut the door.....
boundaries can be written, verbal, or body language...I try to observe others boundaries as well as take care of mine...if i am in the thrift shops looking for treasures, I try not to get into a person's "space" I NEVER touch anyone I don't know and just generally keeping to myself and not bothering others...
outside there is many times a guy who wants to "wash your car for a couple of dollars" and he seems to hit me up EVERY time I show up at that goodwill....the first 2 times, I politely told him "no thanks, my grandkids wash my car for part of their allowance" and I walk away....the 3rd time he tried to hit me up he was a bit more aggressive, telling me that he needed help, etc., (noted that he was very nicely dressed with new looking nike tennis shoes on) and I just told him to please do not bother me ever again as I let my kids wash my car an I only have enough money to barely take care of me and I don't want to be harrassed anymore.....i began to walk away and he started to FOLLOW me and I turned around and pointed at him and told him "do NOT follow me" (while I am grabbing an empty cart to shove at him if he came at me and scream my bloody head off) I think he sensed that I would defend and he backed off....I later told the mgrs. at GW about it and haven't seen him since...
boundaries is just me taking care of my space, my serenity, my peace, my rights to come and go and pursue my goals as long as I don't impinge upon another.....boundaries is not letting myself be abused, manipulated, demeaned, put down, or any other form of disrespect to me...the way I defend that boundary depends on who it is and what the situation is...even with my loved ones, I have my boundaries..I , of course, am more patient with someone I love, but even then--there are times I have to say I don't want such and such said or done or I will do xxxxxxxxxxx if it does not stop......
I hope this post made sense....my mind is scrambled tonight
Welcome...I have always found boundaries to be a very powerful and effective tool -- when understood (by us, the person setting them), established, implemented, and honored (by us) properly! And I stress the last word -- properly -- because that is most important. First, I think the key is to understand what the goal and motivation should be. It should not be to get the other person to change. We can't change the other person, so, that is not what the boundary is for. It is not there for if they violate it -- it is there for when they violate it. It is not there for them. It is there for us.
Second, it cannot be punitive or a threat. For example -- when you drink or are drunk, I won't cook dinner for you. Or, when you are drunk, I am going to ignore you. Third, we have to honor the boundary...because the other person won't. At least not initially. It is there for us. High hopes and low expectations. My boundaries worked exceptionally well -- because I hoped she would not, but expected her to violate my boundary. Some people say a boundary should be a "IF/I will" format. There's no musts here, so to each their own.
So, my boundary was around "unacceptable behavior" and "unacceptable demands"...one boundary was..if you start yelling at me, calling me names, verbally attacking me, etc., I am going to politely leave the house. Another was the same, but if we were talking on the phone, I would politely hang up. Simply put, I wasn't going to get into this with her. I would not participate in a back and forth ping pong match. The way I looked at it -- if she hit me the ping pong ball, I would simply put down the paddle. She can't play ping pong with herself, because I put down the paddle. Another was over money -- if you ask me for money, I am going to politely say no and not engage in a "debate" as to why (it was never a question of whether or not I had the money and could afford it -- I simply chose not to because she was giving all her money to her heroin addict son, enabling him, etc. -- so I wouldn't give her money and be involved in that).
For a seasoned person in al-anon, it is easy to establish a boundary around any situation. The hard part for many is establishing it the proper and healthy way -- check your motives, that will keep you honest and healthy -- and the honoring it. We should honor it -- it is there to protect us. It is healthy for us. It can bring about major improvements in many aspects of our lives.
Boundaries are not punitive or hurtful. There is no judgement of another person, place or thing. Reminding myself often that I am a child of a HP who has a master plan AND wants me and others to be happy, joyous and free helps me detach and enforce my boundaries.
So, my boundaries are all I statements:
- When I am uncomfortable, I will detach and depart.
- As a person in recovery, I choose to have a substance free home.
- As a person in recovery, I choose to avoid others under the influence.
- I am not a bank, a bail bondsman, or a hotel.
My boundaries are constant and consistent. They are not unique to those I love that brought me to Al-Anon. They apply to me and my life/serenity. I strive to treat all people with courtesy and respect. It is my children, who are part of my qualifiers, that suggested I treated them different than others. I had to take a hard look at that, and they were right. This was my issue to work out as I had resentments towards them AND higher expectations of them.
So - keeping it as simple as possible, considering who I am and what my triggers are and then determining what I can/can not live with is how it came to be for me. The program, a sponsor and the steps really gave me the necessary insight to be successful with boundaries. As I grow and learn more about me, I continue to refine my boundaries. HTH - (((hugs)))
When I dropped that -- they worked for me. I love keep it simple.
I hope that's ok.