Hi there Aerin
I am so sorry to hear of what happened and all that is happening. I really want to commend you for protecting your daughter from living with him. I think that's a big positive. My AH is not physically abusive but my mom and I lived with her physically abusive alcoholic partner from when I was 9 to when I was 14. I watched that abusive relationship wear down a very strong, competent, capable woman to the point where she didn't even recognize herself anymore. So many of the same patterns you describe are familiar to me. Especially the part of him being a completely different person when he wasn't drinking. Things progressed in that relationship from hearing him slap her here and there on the rare occasion to him throwing a pot of hot chili from the stove at her head to coming home from camp to find my mom hospitalized because she "accidentally" fell through the front window. My mom beat herself up for being in that relationship for a long time and we attempted to leave a few times before it actually stuck. I remember the first night after we had left and were living in our new place. We went to rent a movie and ordered a pizza and we felt safe. And it was the most bizarre feeling at first not to have to worry what to expect from him that night. And we started to really love the peace we had. If I hadn't seen my own mom go through this I might be more judgemental about women who stay in abusive relationships but I witnessed how the whole dynamic worked. I saw it first hand. I'm so grateful that my mom decided to leave to choose a better life for herself and for me.
Take care of yourself and your daughter first and foremost. Make sure that you two are safe. And please know that nothing you say or do makes you deserving of physical violence or emotional abuse.
Aerin said
Aug 17, 2016
I must vent yet again. Since Friday he has sent 3 texts. "Sorry the night went bad, but you forget you fuel the fire" and "not that you care but I went to church today" and on Monday "hope you had a good workout at gym" Thats it. I am pretty much keeping focus on me as I have not seen him or texted him. I am not as sad as I thought I would be not speaking to him, ( even though I can feel the panic of 4yrs down the drain and now I am alone setting in) But I am still feeling bad for him. grrrrr Like I am abandoning him when he is "trying" to cut back.. (yes that IS stupid to think considering what he has done but darn thatshard to let go of thinking!) Because I am curious by nature I am still struggling with the fact that they would knowingly lie and manipulate situations so you come back or forgive them? or drink even though they say didnt? Do they really put that much thought into it? Maybe a former alcohoilc can answer. Just seems like alot of work. Anyway I am sure the apology is coming and I definitely feel I have every right to never go back although he will still say I am expecting him to be perfect while hes "trying".
el-cee said
Aug 17, 2016
I think for me it was interesting for me to find out that I too lied and manipulated situations because the symptoms for all that live with alcoholism are the same. Its a family disease so we are sick too and we need recovery as much as the drinker. We put up with unacceptable behaviour and excuse it, we get addicted to the drama and chaos as much as they get addicted to alcohol.
We become so dependant on the drinker and watch their every move to determine how our day is going to go. We enjoy that feeling of he needs me, when actually I discovered that when I finished it completely my ex got recovery. When all the enablers let go the drinker finally has a chance.
milkwood said
Aug 17, 2016
I sure found that thinking hard to ditch as well Aerin! I still do really which is why I try to listen to my body as well as my head - do I feel tense anywhere? Do I feel safe and secure to be myself?
When I left my husband for a while the thing that brought me back to him was the feeling that I would never know what the heck had happened if I didn't go back. I remember that feeling of needing to know very well because it still haunts me. And that is what keeps me locked in. My mind does love to think it can solve a puzzle!!! These days the things that I love and enjoy in my life are of my own making and I don't need anyone to create that for me which feels incredibly liberating! (((((Hugs)))))
Mattie said
Aug 17, 2016
Yes, they really put that much thought into it. For alcoholics, every waking moment is about how to have alcohol and keep everything else too - have alcohol and prevent the bad consequences of alcoholism. It requires deception, underhandedness, manipulation, and more. They believe it's all justified because they believe they need alcohol and anything is justified so they continue to get it. The way we lie to ourselves about the bad effects on us, about how it's not really so bad that we should leave, about how our lives are not really out of control, and the many other things we deny to ourselves and others - until we start our own recovery.
pinkchip said
Aug 17, 2016
Agree with mattie 100 percent and would also add that someone "trying" is not reason to stay in a toxic or dangerous relationship. Far healthier to be with someone that doesn't have to "try" (and lie and constantly fail) to be what you want.
Sounds like you actually ARE "trying" to change yourself for real. Don't you owe yourself some dedication for that? What about you? What about your "trying"? Only his matters?
-- Edited by pinkchip on Wednesday 17th of August 2016 07:53:32 PM
tiredtonite said
Aug 17, 2016
(even though I can feel the panic of 4yrs down the drain and now I am alone setting in)
You're not alone. You have a daughter you're raising.
Could you just be going through withdrawal from the bone breaker?
I wish you serenity. ((hugs))) TT
-- Edited by tiredtonite on Wednesday 17th of August 2016 10:54:54 PM
a4l said
Aug 18, 2016
I can only say when drinking my only thought was to get everyone off my case however that needed to be done. Not much thought went into it. I did what worked till it didn't work anymore and I really didn't give a crap how anyone else felt until I got sober by which time the shame was unbearable. That's a drinkers perspective.
KT2015 said
Aug 18, 2016
I wish you Serenity too. I think it's a good point to recognize that you may be in withdrawal of that relationship. It's going to take a while for your thinking to change. It sounds like you have really started to detach from him and that is a good thing. A friend in my group described leaving a relationship like running over a hill. You know you are making the right decision and it is really hard at times but you just have to keep going until you get to the top then it will get easier.
Iamhere said
Aug 18, 2016
a4l wrote:
I can only say when drinking my only thought was to get everyone off my case however that needed to be done. Not much thought went into it. I did what worked till it didn't work anymore and I really didn't give a crap how anyone else felt until I got sober by which time the shame was unbearable. That's a drinkers perspective.
This was me too. I did not plan to harm, hurt, ignore or lie to anybody else. I just wanted others to leave me to it and felt very justified in doing whatever I wanted because I was an adult and I was making adult decisions. I rarely recognized any harm to anybody else - surely did not spend time thinking about it or how what I was doing was affecting another. My thoughts were consumed with ensuring I had enough to stay altered and planned always for being altered.
Alcoholism is a selfish disease. We put ourselves first in spite of anything else going on when we are active. I had no malice towards anyone else when I was active - I was living my own life and wished others would too.
This thread points to me how different the A vs. the Al-Anon perspective is as well as how different the disease manifests in each of us. I never had to cheat, steal or plan to lie - I never let anyone know me well enough for that. I was incapable of intimacy at any level because of the disease. So - nope....I only put thought into staying altered - I did not put any thought into how another would be affected by it. Love was a word, only a verb. I said it but wasn't committed to it - only to an altered state of existence always first and foremost.
When I first came, I wanted an answer to fix my qualifiers. Even with knowledge of recovery and 12 Step experience, I still thought I could fix, change, convince, threaten others to act like I wanted them to. The answers for having a different outcome for me were in the first three steps - admitting I was totally powerless over other people and I was making my life unmanageable by not being true to myself and I needed a spiritual program to change.
Focusing on the other person for me kept me insane. I couldn't take the insanity any more. I was ready to run away or worse. I had to admit and own my powerlessness and focus on me and why I act/react the way I do. Blaming the disease and the diseased also kept me stuck for a while. I grieved for what I thought others should be and didn't realize they needed to learn their own path in their own way. Letting go is very hard, but it was the necessary action for me to move forward!
-- Edited by Iamhere on Thursday 18th of August 2016 02:23:23 PM
Jerry F said
Aug 18, 2016
God I remember thinking like this and feeling like this when I first arrived at the doors of the Monday Night College Church of Christ AFG. I arrived at the realization (real realization) that I didn't know what I had gotten myself into and didn't even know that I didn't know. I was TOAST!! That first trip was actually my 2nd approach because the first once I was so convinced I was right and no one else knew what was real...Just starting to really TOAST UP. I left the groups ...attended AA (grrrrrr) and found room for more insanity. What stuck with me was the first part of the first step...I knew I was powerless and crazy and soon would be ejected up above the toaster bringing smoke and ashes with me. I was going thru what you are going thru now and the hope was that it would be temporary if I just to keep coming back and following the suggestions of the old timers ;(((who I secretly despised!!))). TOAST NEVER GET IT RIGHT...IT JUST GETS IT BURN'T. One of several tricky thoughts I had was 1. a "what if" thought..."what if their right and I'm not"? and then 2. If I will only live one day at a time that would eliminate a long smelly past and fear of the future. Just imagine having "good" thoughts? Those thoughts became new behaviors and the consequences of new behaviors could only be positive changes...which have worked from day one.
Keep coming back...let go of yesterday and tomorrow and practice, practice, practice today. ((((hugs))))
a4l said
Aug 18, 2016
I agree Erin. The three c's, didn't cause, can't control, can't cure, were the things I needed to accept on this side. Control. A response to powerlessness. One feels powerless in a relationship with an alcoholic because we are. Powerless over their compulsion to drink. I charge headfirst into this realisation and land on my butt over and over again. But each time, I run a bit slower, and land a bit softer and get up a lot faster. It comes down to what I want to believe versus what I know to be true deep down. On the other side, alcoholism is a house on the sand. Subject to coastal erosion over the long term, swept away by a freak storm at any time, no matter how fancy or promising the house. Its such a tempting house though sometimes as an alanoner to visit.
I am so sorry to hear of what happened and all that is happening. I really want to commend you for protecting your daughter from living with him. I think that's a big positive. My AH is not physically abusive but my mom and I lived with her physically abusive alcoholic partner from when I was 9 to when I was 14. I watched that abusive relationship wear down a very strong, competent, capable woman to the point where she didn't even recognize herself anymore. So many of the same patterns you describe are familiar to me. Especially the part of him being a completely different person when he wasn't drinking. Things progressed in that relationship from hearing him slap her here and there on the rare occasion to him throwing a pot of hot chili from the stove at her head to coming home from camp to find my mom hospitalized because she "accidentally" fell through the front window. My mom beat herself up for being in that relationship for a long time and we attempted to leave a few times before it actually stuck. I remember the first night after we had left and were living in our new place. We went to rent a movie and ordered a pizza and we felt safe. And it was the most bizarre feeling at first not to have to worry what to expect from him that night. And we started to really love the peace we had. If I hadn't seen my own mom go through this I might be more judgemental about women who stay in abusive relationships but I witnessed how the whole dynamic worked. I saw it first hand. I'm so grateful that my mom decided to leave to choose a better life for herself and for me.
Take care of yourself and your daughter first and foremost. Make sure that you two are safe. And please know that nothing you say or do makes you deserving of physical violence or emotional abuse.
We become so dependant on the drinker and watch their every move to determine how our day is going to go. We enjoy that feeling of he needs me, when actually I discovered that when I finished it completely my ex got recovery. When all the enablers let go the drinker finally has a chance.
When I left my husband for a while the thing that brought me back to him was the feeling that I would never know what the heck had happened if I didn't go back. I remember that feeling of needing to know very well because it still haunts me. And that is what keeps me locked in. My mind does love to think it can solve a puzzle!!! These days the things that I love and enjoy in my life are of my own making and I don't need anyone to create that for me which feels incredibly liberating! (((((Hugs)))))
Yes, they really put that much thought into it. For alcoholics, every waking moment is about how to have alcohol and keep everything else too - have alcohol and prevent the bad consequences of alcoholism. It requires deception, underhandedness, manipulation, and more. They believe it's all justified because they believe they need alcohol and anything is justified so they continue to get it. The way we lie to ourselves about the bad effects on us, about how it's not really so bad that we should leave, about how our lives are not really out of control, and the many other things we deny to ourselves and others - until we start our own recovery.
Agree with mattie 100 percent and would also add that someone "trying" is not reason to stay in a toxic or dangerous relationship. Far healthier to be with someone that doesn't have to "try" (and lie and constantly fail) to be what you want.
Sounds like you actually ARE "trying" to change yourself for real. Don't you owe yourself some dedication for that? What about you? What about your "trying"? Only his matters?
-- Edited by pinkchip on Wednesday 17th of August 2016 07:53:32 PM
(even though I can feel the panic of 4yrs down the drain and now I am alone setting in)
You're not alone. You have a daughter you're raising.
Could you just be going through withdrawal from the bone breaker?
I wish you serenity. ((hugs))) TT
-- Edited by tiredtonite on Wednesday 17th of August 2016 10:54:54 PM
This was me too. I did not plan to harm, hurt, ignore or lie to anybody else. I just wanted others to leave me to it and felt very justified in doing whatever I wanted because I was an adult and I was making adult decisions. I rarely recognized any harm to anybody else - surely did not spend time thinking about it or how what I was doing was affecting another. My thoughts were consumed with ensuring I had enough to stay altered and planned always for being altered.
Alcoholism is a selfish disease. We put ourselves first in spite of anything else going on when we are active. I had no malice towards anyone else when I was active - I was living my own life and wished others would too.
This thread points to me how different the A vs. the Al-Anon perspective is as well as how different the disease manifests in each of us. I never had to cheat, steal or plan to lie - I never let anyone know me well enough for that. I was incapable of intimacy at any level because of the disease. So - nope....I only put thought into staying altered - I did not put any thought into how another would be affected by it. Love was a word, only a verb. I said it but wasn't committed to it - only to an altered state of existence always first and foremost.
When I first came, I wanted an answer to fix my qualifiers. Even with knowledge of recovery and 12 Step experience, I still thought I could fix, change, convince, threaten others to act like I wanted them to. The answers for having a different outcome for me were in the first three steps - admitting I was totally powerless over other people and I was making my life unmanageable by not being true to myself and I needed a spiritual program to change.
Focusing on the other person for me kept me insane. I couldn't take the insanity any more. I was ready to run away or worse. I had to admit and own my powerlessness and focus on me and why I act/react the way I do. Blaming the disease and the diseased also kept me stuck for a while. I grieved for what I thought others should be and didn't realize they needed to learn their own path in their own way. Letting go is very hard, but it was the necessary action for me to move forward!
-- Edited by Iamhere on Thursday 18th of August 2016 02:23:23 PM
God I remember thinking like this and feeling like this when I first arrived at the doors of the Monday Night College Church of Christ AFG. I arrived at the realization (real realization) that I didn't know what I had gotten myself into and didn't even know that I didn't know. I was TOAST!! That first trip was actually my 2nd approach because the first once I was so convinced I was right and no one else knew what was real...Just starting to really TOAST UP. I left the groups ...attended AA (grrrrrr) and found room for more insanity. What stuck with me was the first part of the first step...I knew I was powerless and crazy and soon would be ejected up above the toaster bringing smoke and ashes with me. I was going thru what you are going thru now and the hope was that it would be temporary if I just to keep coming back and following the suggestions of the old timers ;(((who I secretly despised!!))). TOAST NEVER GET IT RIGHT...IT JUST GETS IT BURN'T. One of several tricky thoughts I had was 1. a "what if" thought..."what if their right and I'm not"? and then 2. If I will only live one day at a time that would eliminate a long smelly past and fear of the future. Just imagine having "good" thoughts? Those thoughts became new behaviors and the consequences of new behaviors could only be positive changes...which have worked from day one.
Keep coming back...let go of yesterday and tomorrow and practice, practice, practice today. ((((hugs))))