It was suggested that a group inventory maybe beneficial for MIP by 2HP and so here it is!!  I am editing for clarity, that I asked Betty first and she gave her blessings to try this for our membership.

The Traditions summarize the Al-Anon principles that have proven to help Al-Anon groups function effectively.  

Since they were mentioned to be an integral part of why the group inventory is done, they are listed below for us to read.

The inventory is a way for the group to get back to the traditions, if deemed necessary.

Below the traditions are the inventory questions.

Twelve Traditions

1. Our common welfare should come first; personal progress for the greatest number depends upon unity.
2. For our group purpose there is but one authoritya loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servantsthey do not govern.
3. The relatives of alcoholics, when gathered together for mutual aid, may call themselves an Al-Anon Family Group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation. The only requirement for membership is that there be a problem of alcoholism in a relative or friend.
4. Each group should be autonomous, except in matters affecting another group or Al-Anon or AA as a whole.
5. Each Al-Anon Family Group has but one purpose: to help families of alcoholics. We do this by practicing the Twelve Steps of AA ourselves, by encouraging and understanding our alcoholic relatives, and by welcoming and giving comfort to families of alcoholics.
6. Our Family Groups ought never endorse, finance or lend our name to any outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary spiritual aim. Although a separate entity, we should always co-operate with Alcoholics Anonymous.
7. Every group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.
8. Al-Anon Twelfth Step work should remain forever non-professional, but our service centers may employ special workers.
9. Our groups, as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
10. The Al-Anon Family Groups have no opinion on outside issues; hence our name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
11. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, films, and TV. We need guard with special care the anonymity of all AA members.
12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles above personalities.

© Al-Anons Twelve Traditions, copyright 1996 by Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc. Reprinted with permission of Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.

There are a number of questions in the inventory that may not applicable, but I suspect that we all will be able to recognize what questions are pertinent to our on-line Al Anon group.  Please place a number before your answers, so it could be determined what question you are responding to.  Of course, there is always room for discussion! J

AL ANON GUIDELINES FOR GROUP INVENTORY

Taking a periodic group inventory helps to keep your group healthy and invigorated. Members can use the inventory to discuss what actions have been beneficial to group and personal growth, and what actions need to be updated, discontinued, or improved. Discussions during or following an inventory can include ideas for new service opportunities, ideas for reaching out to potential members, and resolutions for major or minor concerns before the groups unity is disrupted. The harmony and success of each group depends on shared responsibility, a warm spirit of fellowship, and individual self-improvement.(Al-Anon and Alateen Groups at Work [P24], Introduction) Please see G-8b for Methods and Reflections pages.

Here are some suggested methods for using the guideline: Use the inventory questions for group discussion. In some groups the Chairperson or another trusted servant asks one question per meeting as part of the group format. 

TAKING A GROUP INVENTORY

My view of our Al-Anon group:

1. Does the group abide by the Traditions in all of its affairs?

2. Do we criticize others in the group or gossip about them?

3. Are group business meetings held at regular intervals?

4. Are group business meetings conducted in a manner that members feel safe to share opinions?

5. Are members pressured by dominant members to accept their ideas?

6. Does our group have a process for the minority voice to be heard even after weve made a decision?

7. Do members purposely reveal their length of time in Al-Anon or Alateen to gain credibility during group discussions?

8. Are we forming cliques or being indifferent to other members of the group?

9. Is the group process adequate for informing members about local, Area, and worldwide Al-Anon/Alateen events and concerns?

10. Does our group undertake service projects on its own or in conjunction with the district, Al-Anon Information Service, or Area?

11. Is our group active and supportive at the district and Area levels? Do we send representatives and financial contributions to the district, the Al-Anon Information Service (AIS), and Area as well as to the World Service Office (WSO)? Are there ways in which the group is not fully self supporting?

12. How does the group show its support for Alateen? Is Alateen literature available?

13. Are several eligible Al-Anon members certified to be of service to Alateen if a local group needs help?

14. Do we have a literature display of Conference Approved Literature (CAL)? Do we regularly reorder CAL? Do we have a group lending library

15. Does our group process for selecting a Chairperson/Leader for the weekly meetings encourage members to volunteer to serve? Are the Chairpersons/Leaders prepared?

16. Do all members have an opportunity to participate in service to the group?

17. Is there rotation of leadership in the group?

18. Does the group have a process for handling problems? If so, are members aware of the process?

-- Edited by Debb on Monday 13th of January 2020 09:43:52 AM

-- Edited by Debb on Monday 13th of January 2020 12:14:54 PM

1. Does the group abide by the Traditions in all of its affairs?

I believe the majority of the traditions are in place, but there seems to be issues, that I am sensing, concerning personalities sometimes over-riding principles, and those principles are suppose to be based on unity with only one authority - a loving God that expresses himself through us in our group conscience, per the Traditions. Our only purpose is to welcome and give comfort to families of alcoholics, that is this groups primary aim.

2. Do we criticize others in the group or gossip about them?

I do sense some criticism happening and it is uncomfortable at times.

3. Are group business meetings held at regular intervals?

I believe so.

4. Are group business meetings conducted in a manner that members feel safe to share opinions?

I believe so.

5. Are members pressured by dominant members to accept their ideas?

I sense that this maybe going on, and again it is uncomfortable and not appropriate.

6. Does our group have a process for the minority voice to be heard even after weve made a decision?

I believe that the moderators of MIP are very accessible.

7. Do members purposely reveal their length of time in Al-Anon or Alateen to gain credibility during group discussions?

I do not see that happening at all.

8. Are we forming cliques or being indifferent to other members of the group?

I feel that maybe happening, but also feel that some members stay in the background because there are unaddressed issues.

9. Is the group process adequate for informing members about local, Area, and worldwide Al-Anon/Alateen events and concerns?

Yes, I feel we are an open enough board that information can be readily shared.

10. Does our group undertake service projects on its own or in conjunction with the district, Al-Anon Information Service, or Area?

Not that I am aware of.

11. Is our group active and supportive at the district and Area levels? Do we send representatives and financial contributions to the district, the Al-Anon Information Service (AIS), and Area as well as to the World Service Office (WSO)? Are there ways in which the group is not fully self supporting?

No, not that I am aware of.

12. How does the group show its support for Alateen? Is Alateen literature available?

I believe all literature is available via links on this board.

13. Are several eligible Al-Anon members certified to be of service to Alateen if a local group needs help?

I believe so!

14. Do we have a literature display of Conference Approved Literature (CAL)? Do we regularly reorder CAL? Do we have a group lending library

I believe all literature is available via links on this board.

15. Does our group process for selecting a Chairperson/Leader for the weekly meetings encourage members to volunteer to serve? Are the Chairpersons/Leaders prepared?

Yes.

16. Do all members have an opportunity to participate in service to the group?

Yes.

17. Is there rotation of leadership in the group?

I believe so.

18. Does the group have a process for handling problems? If so, are members aware of the process?

I believe so, this inventory, hopefully will help us address and solve this boards issues, if there appears to be any, by consensus and adherence to the Traditions. 

thanks Debb great idea

   Debb... 

                   Find that there are subtle "small p" politics in any group. They are more than manageable here, for me, at least ...

                   I have become healthier, and I tend to attract healthy people, [I think!]

                   Hotrod runs a steps and traditions forum. Also, maybe some group issues can be addressed on our group business form???

                   It is good for members to have a voice- and to be heard...! ...

Thank you for posting the Traditions and the guidelines around taking a group inventory, as well as suggested questions.

I hesitate to participate, however, as it's been my experience that usually the group decides if it wants to take an inventory, and then if so, works out how they wish to do it. If they want it to be anonymous or not, etc. I saw two suggestions thus far about conducting an inventory - and then, of course, it looks like Betty thinks it's a good idea. I am unclear of David's thoughts if there's an actual "yes" or "no".

So. I am also in support of our group taking an inventory. I think it would be a healthy thing to do. But I'd like to see if all members are in agreement or if there are any concerns or questions before diving in and doing it, if that makes any sense.

Thanks for getting the ball rolling.

Thank you Betty, David and Aloha! I did ask Betty if she would like me to post this Inventory. It is completely up to everyone to determine if they would like to participate and if they find that it would be beneficial.

I am now and have always been willing to do what the group feels is best for the group! I am a moderator for the forum which is a volunteer service position. I yield no power in this role, just make sure that we are not invaded by spammers trying to sell Viagra or other 'things'. Beyond that, I've edited some curse words and removed posts as requested by the member. I do not censor others, nor want to. My point - my thoughts, opinions, desires, etc. weigh no more and no less than any other member! My goal and hope is to share my own ESH with others and encourage them to try recovery if they feel it will help them with what brought them here. Love and light to all is my hope, just for today!

So...David...in your opinion...I can't help but ask...what this the group conscience? Or was this simply the closest this group got to one this time?

   Hmmm yes... progress, not perfection... ...and partly why I am here, to lick my wounds... but also to learn from members of diverse groups... what does work best...  ...

wow, thank you for posting the information!!  I am not surprised by the lack of participation, this group has a history of not wanting it to be "real" Al-Anon and still, good things do happen.

To me, it is unfortunate when it starts looking more like a social media or blogging site, with little or no mention of Al-Anon solutions.  To me, the Al-Anon message itself should be safe-guarded  within a thread but I do recall John F. cautioning members about this site not being responsible for anyones safety or recovery.   And that seems realistic to me, though I have often wished  the capability of logging in and NEVER posting a single visible word would be removed, secrecy is creepy.

My F2F meetings read simple meeting guidelines that carry reminders of our traditions. An environment of self-control and discipline does aid recovery all around. (And still, we all have to walk out of meeting rooms and figure out how we're going to be okay in a world lacking self-control and discipline, ha!)

This is a popular reading at most meetings I attend, from ODAT page 353:

THOUGHTS TO TAKE TO AN AL-ANON MEETING

I will make sure that what I say will be helpful to someone, and not merely use the meeting as an audience for my troubles. I will listen to everything that is said so I will have some constructive ideas to take home with me and use.  I will not yield to my compulsion to go on talking after I have made my point and what I say will have a direct relevance to the subject of the meeting.  If someone asks for advice, I will give it only in terms of Al-Anon principles, and not suggest action to be taken.

These guidelines are read at my Sunday meeting:

In Al-Anon, we share our own experience, strength and hope - keeping the focus on ourselves and how the Al-Anon program is helping us to change our personal attitudes and actions.  All Al-Anon discussions should be constructive, helpful, loving, and understanding. In striving toward these ideals, we avoid topics that can lead to dissension and distract us from our goals. We ask that all members refrain from gossip, dominance, discussion of religious beliefs, and criticism of one another, including the alcoholic."  (then it goes into discouraging crosstalk.)


I believe the quality of any group comes down to "obedience to the unenforceable,"  when members behave unselfishly, wanting the best for the whole.   I am fortunate that whenever I felt I had outgrown a group, there was always another waiting for me (Higher Power is sooo GOOD) 

This site is where it all began for me, when a stranger looked up my very first meeting.  I wish the same outcome for everyone who finds their way to MIP.

Godspeed (((all)))

Being fairly new I'm not sure I have the right to reply here at all,but I'm going to anyway.

It was really hard for me to reach out to others instead of suffering in silence. It felt great to have others reply to my posts,I didn't feel so alone anymore.I really appreciated that.

That being said,I feel some members are a bit too harsh and sound condescending towards others. When someone is new,like me,we just don't know what we're doing really,that's the whole point of reaching out.When someone responds in a way that is talking down to another it's very off-putting.

All of you were new at this at one time. Would you have stuck with the program if others tried to make you feel inferior?

Also,I think it's not necessary to push and prod others.Recovery is an individual thing not a one size fits all.And I think maybe that's not taken into consideration.

My participation here will most likely be touch and go.I will probably not log in much and just read through posts. I really don't like the bickering I've read in some posts and certainly not in my own thread already.

How can you expect much participation when it seems to be a free for all here? 

I wish there was more structure.More guidelines.Or something. I do believe this place could be helpful but it doesn't seem to be the way it is.It's not good to read a thread where someone joined,was reaching out and the thread turned into bickering and the OP never came back.I wouldn't have either as I'm sure most of you wouldn't have either.

Just my 2cents.

SF, thank you for sharing your thoughts. That is why this inventory was posted. I took the full inventory and if you notice, I addressed the same issues you have, thank you again. Please do keep coming back to let us know how you are doing.

DavidG wrote:

---

 

   Hmmm yes... progress, not perfection... ...and partly why I am here, to lick my wounds... but also to learn from members of diverse groups... what does work best...  ...

---

Got it...thanks David. The "yes" is the answer, and I was looking for an answer, which I clearly recognize as your opinion...and that's all I was asking for, your opinion. So, thank you very, very much. I greatly appreciate it your honesty.

My view of our Al-Anon group:

1. Does the group abide by the Traditions in all of its affairs?

I think it tries to and succeeds. 19 times out of 20, at least...

2. Do we criticize others in the group or gossip about them?

I hear nothing. if there is a lot of that about there is always an atmosphere. I think the atmosphere here is really good.

3. Are group business meetings held at regular intervals?

The only real need here, so far, is the annual Tradition 7 meeting- which has always worked well.

4. Are group business meetings conducted in a manner that members feel safe to share opinions?

Yes... members of all MIP 12 Step groups are called in- and every member given the opportunity to take part.

5. Are members pressured by dominant members to accept their ideas?

Not that I can see. If I sense the teeniest bit of conflict I use "I" statements. That seems to work for me.

6. Does our group have a process for the minority voice to be heard even after weve made a decision?

I believe that to be the case. I don't think we have tested that one [no need to] while I have been here.

7. Do members purposely reveal their length of time in Al-Anon or Alateen to gain credibility during group discussions?

8. Are we forming cliques or being indifferent to other members of the group?

9. thru 13 don't really apply to us

14. Do we have a literature display of Conference Approved Literature (CAL)? Do we regularly reorder CAL? Do we have a group lending library.

No, but references to literature and to Alanon CAL is supplied by members when asked.

15. Does our group process for selecting a Chairperson/Leader for the weekly meetings encourage members to volunteer to serve? Are the Chairpersons/Leaders prepared?

Members tend to pin up readings from our three readers- at regular intervals

16. Do all members have an opportunity to participate in service to the group?

I believe so...

17. Is there rotation of leadership in the group?

There are service leaders here, who provide readings. Debb you show good service by pinning up this checklist and leading the discussion.  

18. Does the group have a process for handling problems? If so, are members aware of the process?

I think our process is largely informal. We have mods to ensure group safety.

Personally I have a good rapport with all the regular members. I think our approach to newcomers is good. However asking the questions... is even better- not to take this for granted.

If anyone reading this wants talk about any of these points I have raised they are most welcome.

I am sure this process will work out well- and maybe the group should consider doing this in January of every year.

So maybe , if I got a seconder, this could go up as a remit on our business page. ?

Thanks,

DavidG.

Thank you David for sharing!!

    Thanks Debbs...  ...

        I reflected on the inventory, and it fits into my dream for this year. Focussed around tradition 5.

       Just tonight I compared the AA Declaration with the Alanon Declaration... both written differently...

The AA declaration begins and ends with the words- "I am responsible." And in Alanon, right from the

get-go we learn to cease being responsible for alcoholics. At the same time there is a tremendous depth

of interest and concern for the alcoholic addict. Compassion. Strength.

Our declaration is equally significant:

It appears that at least some members are willing to participate in an inventory, yes?

Again, I am all for it, as I think any group should take one periodically to address issues, just as we should take personal inventory and address what comes up there, too.

Before we get into it, however, I'd also like to know what the group would like to do in response to issues that get ferreted out in the answers. Does this mean policy changes in how the board is run overall? Does it only mean personal accountability? I'm just curious, as I've seen group inventories done before and then nothing came about, despite real problems that were brought up because there was no follow-up and discussion around what was discovered.

I do have a good group inventory experience to share, however, too... My home group conducted an inventory last year after a visitor came and decided our group cross-talked and went to the district and complained. First of all - cross-talk is actually a term that came from recovery centers and actually isn't in any of our actual CAL. I still understand and support the idea behind discouraging cross-talk, which my home group actually defines - talking out of turn, advice-giving, being intimidating our discourteous... but Al-Anon as a whole actually has no policy on it. So it was really great - our group conducted an inventory and we discussed the issue. That particular person never came back, so we never got to have further discussion about what actually triggered that response from that person. But we all took a group inventory and actually found that our group does NOT cross-talk and that we didn't need to take any further action around it, except to just keep our eyes peeled and if we find someone being intimidating we speak up. So that was a great group inventory as it lead to better understanding on how our members felt, allowed everyone to have a say in whether or not we felt safe and supported, and were able to ask "do we REALLY have a problem?"

Its my hope that if MIP conducts a group inventory that we also make plans to discuss what was found and if there's something we can do to improve the overall health of this board. I know ultimately it will have to be "let it begin with me" and personal accountability plays a huge role there.

I think that the outcome of this inventory will undoubtedly bring to light for everyone, any issues that need to be addressed. Since I asked Betty before posting this, if it was in the best interest of MIP, I feel that the outcomes will be viewed. I also believe that by doing the inventory, which David and I have done, allowed us to bring to light any concerns and hopefully everyone will feel the same.

Please disregard my post in this thread. I re-read it and see that I was just being a jerk. I'm sorry. I would make excuses for myself but there are none,I was just a jerk,plain and simple.

SF we never disregard or disrespect anyone's feelings on this board. You are always entitled to your opinion, you are and were not a jerk and there is no need to retract what you said! You should only be concerned with your well being at this point, so please keep coming back to talk to us about YOU! {SMILE}

That was your truth at the moment, Sunny. I didn't read it as your being intentionally combative, just stating your observations. I'm glad you're here, and you absolutely have every right to participate in the inventory and respond to the questions as you are a member of this MIP group.

 Sunny:  I read that original posting. We were all asked for input- and that was your truth at the time. I did not comment then- because I had not shared on your thread.

All:  No cross-talk. I have seen this rigidly imposed on a group. Gulp! I think it is about boundaries. Because we all seem to have issues with boundaries- we have to learn- somehow. It is great on an online group because we can backtrack.

      And there is no denying what has been said!  ...

I always say here- that our greeting time, sharing time, and coffee time are all rolled into one. For me- virtually every regular member here, and me have had coffee time- at some time... and we can always talk when we need to. For me and my friends coffee time is not gossip time at all... but we do talk about stuff in a commonsense sort of way. Sometimes a bit of general chit-chat is nice too! 

I learned not to give advice. Just opinions- and only when asked for.

Sometimes we have threads where everyone pitches in with comments. "Take what y'all like and leave the rest"- sort of stuff... and this is a part of our group culture...  ...

Sunny, I believe your post had some credence to it, and I agree with some of what you said.

Based upon my experience, I am confident nothing will come from it, but that seems to be the standard operating procedure around here.

Bo wrote:

---

Sunny, I believe your post had some credence to it, and I agree with some of what you said.

Based upon my experience, I am confident nothing will come from it, but that seems to be the standard operating procedure around here.

---

 Bo... when this process is over- I would like to go to our business board and ask to have this inventory every year- in January... 

David thank you for your service and confidence in MIP. I agree with you. This inventory is new to MIP but believe it will be a benefit, in any form of outcome.

DavidG wrote:

---

Bo wrote:

---

Sunny, I believe your post had some credence to it, and I agree with some of what you said.

Based upon my experience, I am confident nothing will come from it, but that seems to be the standard operating procedure around here.

---

 Bo... when this process is over- I would like to go to our business board and ask to have this inventory every year- in January... 

---

David, my experience here, and my expectations of this group are far different than yours. In addition, I think it is a fallacious exercise before it even starts. In my opinion, this is nothing more than an effort to give some appearance of credibility to an insincere exercise.

DavidG wrote:

---

Bo wrote:

---

Sunny, I believe your post had some credence to it, and I agree with some of what you said.

Based upon my experience, I am confident nothing will come from it, but that seems to be the standard operating procedure around here.

---

 Bo... when this process is over- I would like to go to our business board and ask to have this inventory every year- in January... 

---

However, I wish you luck with your proposal. If it were me, it would be a group conscience...but I absolutely recognize that it can't be. Hence, the informal nature of an "inventory" so to speak.

  Bo... I got "winged" one time for quoting another member!!! This was on the MIP business board, mind you!

          All business issues around here, I close my eyes- and think "standard meeting procedures". Not that I would

          try and impose that- but it helps me focus on what stage the "meeting" is at.

Quoting can be a form of cross-talk... but on business issues open and frank discussion would be the norm!

Horses for courses, maybe...?

Bo - is a group inventory an insincere exercise, or just only on this message board is it insincere? Can you elaborate why you feel it is insincere?

I ask because obviously this would be no help whatsoever if our regular posters here go in jaded. Why bother, right?

I do feel its a bit of a monumental task on here. It's not like we're all sitting in a meeting at exactly the same time and we're all a momentarily captive audience to the people requesting the inventory. Meaning, this thread is sitting here, but as to whether or not all our group members are going to open it, read it and decide to participate is tantamount to herding cats.

I don't think the effort is insincere, but I do think it's going to take some real effort to get voluntary participation from all our active members. What those efforts are or should be, I don't know. And as I've asked before... if we do take an inventory are we going to bother to discuss and look honestly at the issues discussed, or are we just going to shrug it off and say "well... this isn't an official Al-Anon board anyway." or "Why bother asking for improvements in THIS environment?"

Just some thoughts.

Bo - I am going to take a chance, because I know I'm going to be inundated with a huge dialogue from you, so here goes......... MIP and it's members, since I've been a member going back 2014, has always followed all 12 Traditions. What I see happening now is you are the only member, at this time who is not abiding by Traditions 2 and 5. I will let you look them up yourself. MIP has always been sincere in it is goals to honor the founder of this forums wishes that, Al Anon states: That this place should be a place where everyone can share their experience, strength and hope in order to solve their common problems. We believe alcoholism is a family illness, and that changed attitudes can aid recovery.

Aloha, let me clarify, and I apologize for not being crystal clear. I believe it is an insincere exercise here, on this bulletin board -- and that is based upon my experience, my interpretation, and how I see, feel, and read the dynamic and tone here.

As far as why, in all due respect, at this time, no I do not want to elaborate. That's not the discussion here and it shouldn't be a distraction from the issue at hand. Let the process take it's course. However, I will say two things -- first, it is my intention to not participate in the "discussion" (whatever form and fashion it ends up being). Second, I agree with you. Yes, I too feel it would be no help whatsoever -- and no, not because I am jaded -- but because of what I previously stated. So, people will and should participate and contribute. Let's see what happens as a result of it.

Good theory David. However, your "standard meeting procedures" might be different than mine, others, etc. Be that as it may, let the process take flight...and see where it flies.

Bo wrote:

---

Good theory David. However, your "standard meeting procedures" might be different than mine, others, etc. Be that as it may, let the process take flight...and see where it flies.

---

 Hmmm , yes... I was talking about taking a motion to the Alanon Business board- at the end of this process- setting in place a group inventory for January next year.

               where I am sitting a business matter is different from a group inventory- or an open ended conscience meeting... shall see where the flow goes, here...  ...

Debb wrote:

---

Bo - I am going to take a chance, because I know I'm going to be inundated with a huge dialogue from you, so here goes......... MIP and it's members, since I've been a member going back 2014, has always followed all 12 Traditions. What I see happening now is you are the only member, at this time who is not abiding by Traditions 2 and 5. I will let you look them up yourself. MIP has always been sincere in it is goals to honor the founder of this forums wishes that, Al Anon states: That this place should be a place where everyone can share their experience, strength and hope in order to solve their common problems. We believe alcoholism is a family illness, and that changed attitudes can aid recovery.

---

Debb, no, you won't be inundated. I am not here to argue, present a case, or anything of the like. I shared my experience and what I've seen happen here on this BB. That's all. Maybe others would read it and interpret it differently. That's fine, and expected. I see red, you see scarlet, someone else sees ruby. Neither is right or wrong. It is all personal and subjective, subject to interpretation, etc.

If you feel I am not following the 12 traditions -- specifically 2 and 5 -- thank you for pointing that out. I appreciate it. While I appreciate and respect that you feel MIP has always been sincere in it's goals to honor the founder, that is not what I was speaking to at all. In addition, everyone here at one time or another cites alanon principles, procedures, guidelines, and the like. However, is it not done selectively? Rhetorical question. I come here to share, learn, listen, etc. Not for politics, personalities, bureaucracy, or lack thereof. That said, I will refrain from any involvement in this discussion because as I said the process should move forward and people should participate and contribute.

Bo wrote:

---

Aloha, let me clarify, and I apologize for not being crystal clear. I believe it is an insincere exercise here, on this bulletin board -- and that is based upon my experience, my interpretation, and how I see, feel, and read the dynamic and tone here.

As far as why, in all due respect, at this time, no I do not want to elaborate. That's not the discussion here and it shouldn't be a distraction from the issue at hand. Let the process take it's course. However, I will say two things -- first, it is my intention to not participate in the "discussion" (whatever form and fashion it ends up being). Second, I agree with you. Yes, I too feel it would be no help whatsoever -- and no, not because I am jaded -- but because of what I previously stated. So, people will and should participate and contribute. Let's see what happens as a result of it.

---

Thanks, Bo - actually, the "why" would fit in pretty perfectly as it's your personal observation of the group and is pretty relevant to the topic at hand, but I see you said you don't wish to participate so I'll leave it at that. Thanks for answering my question.

As I ponder this discussion, I want to thank Debb for the topic/discussion/inventory/information.

I am now and always have been one who embraces positive change, especially if/when it leads to healthy growth. In spite of sharing that I, as a moderator, provide this service only to keep posts/posters 'safe', others forget at times that I am an equal member too. As a member and a moderator, I get Private Messages, some of which just want a private discussion and others attempting to report posts that offend others. I am reminded with each message reporting posts/posters that I am powerless over other people, places and things.

I agree that doing an inventory with an online group only is a difficult task. Not impossible, just difficult. Gathering input, compiling for discussion, voting, implementing, etc. is a huge undertaking. A recent post where a member tried to suggest she felt unsafe here gave an awesome share from Tom...

"I don't post here nearly as often as in the past, but overall I think MIP follows the old 90/10 rule.... At least 90% of the time, the board is what we all hope/strive for - encouraging, sharing ES&H, and listening to each other. We ALL (me included) need to remember that we are all "Miracles in Progress", and no single one of us is smarter than the next person, so that we don't have the authority to advise and direct. I have caught myself doing that in the past, and I try hard to deal with this "God complex" that seems tied to my own thoughts, will, experiences, and belief systems."

This helped me greatly. I agree with this completely - most of the time, this board is what we want it to be. Where we fall down is when we give opinions, advice, drift from the suggested topic, cross-talk, etc. I find we do best when we offer gentle, loving support and ESH. As a personal choice, I stop reading a post when it starts with, "You SHOULD..." I avoid You, He, She in most of my posts as a noun, simply because it's an easy way to focus on another vs. self.

Many members have not posted in this discussion nor tried to answer the questions. I do not believe it's apathy at all but rather fear - goes back to feeling unsafe. Nobody, as an adult in recovery wants to be told what to do nor be the recipient of a post that suggests what they are doing or have done or are thinking is wrong.

In our face-to-face meetings, we have done inventories. We do allow members to remain anonymous, if desired. We do consider all feedback, input and answers without bias, personal opinion, etc. - compiling it for discussion at business meetings. My experience is that many members (myself included) shy away from business meetings. I am more than willing, when I do not participate, to accept, embrace and practice what the group conscience decides -- this is not always the case for others. 

So, for me, I will continue to be of service as I have been and will willingly make changes agreed upon by the group conscience.

I agree safety feels an issue here. My experience with every other group inventory I've participated in, it was conducted so members could provide their answers anonymously.

I agree as well as to the safety of the group members and their participation. So how does the membership go about making this inventory anonymous? Would it be that responses be directed via private message to the moderators?

   I think the moderator's role is to provide for the safety of the groups- and it is a role stemming from MIP Miracles in Progress. Not from an Alanon base.

   Of course the mods have group member roles as well, like all of us.

   I felt 50:50 about a group inventory... but happy to give it a chance...

That would be a hard 'no' from this moderator. I don't know how any others feel, but I know I have no interest. In the spirit of cooperation, and an effort to get feedback from as many members as possible, I don't know that an inventory is worth it unless the membership votes to participate. David keeps making mention of the business board. That is certainly a place to post any/all suggestions for change. I am not certain many visit, so there's no issue in posting thoughts there, and then putting a link over here to try and encourage participation. Just a thought to keep 'business' concerns separate from our 'daily bread' - I'm also fine with this discussion being here. As far as the chat area and the meetings, we (moderators) don't track those or have any insight. For as long as I've been a member, the meetings/chat have always been a separate area of the site.